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MSD for Holden 6?

Started by _ChevLX_77_ , May 09 2007 08:30 PM

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38 replies to this topic

#1 _ChevLX_77_

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Posted 09 May 2007 - 08:30 PM

Ok just to clarify one thing do MSD make an ignition system for a holden six or do you have to use a modified chev six cylinder one?

Edited by ChevLX_77, 09 May 2007 - 08:31 PM.

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#2 _dave720gtr_

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Posted 09 May 2007 - 10:25 PM

yes but i think your asking do thay make a dizzy well no thay dont!

what u do is use a msd 6 or 7 with a holden vk electronic dizzy with the modual gutts removed as the msd has all this built into it ,,

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#3 _SableMet7/73_

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Posted 09 May 2007 - 10:34 PM

G day, not sure about the dizzy setup, but Ive run a MSD 6A on my HQ
monaro for 7/8 years(350 & rockcrusher) and has been totally reliable
starts 1st time every time(after oil pressure's up). Only thing is that being
a CDI (capacitive discharge ignition) if you are running less than a fully
charged battery, engine will cut out thru loss of ignition, specially if you
turn the radio or lights on. They require a good 12volt source to energise
the capacitor banks and the primary ignition circuit, my Suzuki RG500
is also CDI and being a 2 stroke requires a good battery for the CDI,
power valve controler and lights. If the battery is slightly dodgy then
the engine wont rev cleanly thru the power band.
Havnt really answered your question but hope the info helps avoid some
minor pitfalls Ive experienced with CDI ignitions

cheers Jono

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#4 _Bomber Watson_

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Posted 10 May 2007 - 01:42 PM

i wouldent reccomend using the vk dizzy with a decent engine. they develop a weird harmonic at high revs and make the engine missfire. i actualy know a guy who ran 3 tenths faster putting a points dizzy in his car.

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#5 _dave720gtr_

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Posted 10 May 2007 - 05:57 PM

^^

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#6 Heath

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Posted 10 May 2007 - 06:44 PM

That 3/10ths of a second thing may have had other contributing factors... because everyone knows that a VK dizzy is generally superior; i can't imagine the advantages could be turned around so quickly.

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#7 _ChevLX_77_

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Posted 10 May 2007 - 07:29 PM

yeah we use one on the drag car.

VK dizzy that is but its locked and regraphed to suit nitrous

Edited by ChevLX_77, 10 May 2007 - 07:32 PM.

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#8 _levis_

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Posted 10 May 2007 - 07:54 PM

has any one seen the ignitor electronic distributors for holden six made by pertronix?

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#9 _Bomber Watson_

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Posted 10 May 2007 - 08:10 PM

ok guys the bloke im talking about is this local boy with a turbo holden six runs 10's, no shit changed dizzys and ran faster. also some other mates of mine had a weird missfire, tried two diferent vk dizzies same problem put points one back in and problem solved.

ALSO, when i was talking ignition systems with my engine man the vk dizzie missfire problem was the first thing he brought up.

call me what you want, results are results, i run a vk dizzy now in a very mild motor and would put one in anything up to around xu-1 speck after that no way.

and heath dont be a cock head mate, everyone knows a lot of things. the things that work most people dont know.

Edited by Bomber Watson, 10 May 2007 - 08:12 PM.

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#10 _dave720gtr_

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Posted 10 May 2007 - 09:59 PM

If i was building a racer engine i would be using msd crank triger to fire it ! not no old points setup

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#11 _why-psi_

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Posted 11 May 2007 - 09:59 AM

ok guys the bloke im talking about is this local boy with a turbo holden six runs 10's, no shit changed dizzys and ran faster. also some other mates of mine had a weird missfire, tried two diferent vk dizzies same problem put points one back in and problem solved.

ALSO, when i was talking ignition systems with my engine man the vk dizzie missfire problem was the first thing he brought up.

call me what you want, results are results, i run a vk dizzy now in a very mild motor and would put one in anything up to around xu-1 speck after that no way.

and heath dont be a cock head mate, everyone knows a lot of things. the things that work most people dont know.

did he take out the resistor to supply 12 volts to the electronic dizzy instead of the 9 volts which points dizzys run on

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#12 _dave720gtr_

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Posted 11 May 2007 - 11:11 AM

thats its whypsi many so called experts prob dont even no! what your talking about !
on old holdens that run points the green wire is resisted to 9v when you wire up msd and or just a vk dizzy you must splice into the pink wire under the dash or find a other source of 12v for them to run off ..

:spit:

Edited by dave720gtr, 11 May 2007 - 11:15 AM.

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#13 Heath

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Posted 11 May 2007 - 11:34 AM

and heath dont be a cock head mate, everyone knows a lot of things. the things that work most people dont know.

I think you mis-interpretted my post DJ. I meant that everyone knows a VK dizzy is considered a superior choice. I wasn't trying to be a smartarse. I'm just confused because everyone seems to think that they're better and a performance motor has to be an electronic job.

Also, I presume there are a lot of things that can go wrong with any distributor. Are you sure that this particular VK distributor didn't have any existing problems?

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#14 _devilsadvocate_

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Posted 11 May 2007 - 12:58 PM

just to clarify, this distributor is the same as the one fitted to vh 6cyl, or its the efi version for the vk?
There are distributor test rigs that should be able to spin things up to the rev range where the "harmonics" are occuring and problems identified. What sort of rpm are you talking about anyway Bomber?

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#15 rodomo

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Posted 11 May 2007 - 02:46 PM

just to clarify, this distributor is the same as the one fitted to vh 6cyl, or its the efi version for the vk?

I thought both these dissys were similar?

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#16 J-Rod

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Posted 11 May 2007 - 03:06 PM

just to clarify, this distributor is the same as the one fitted to vh 6cyl, or its the efi version for the vk?
I thought both these dissys were similar?

didn't the EFI have the same dizzy as the VH and the carb model had EST?

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#17 rodomo

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Posted 11 May 2007 - 04:09 PM

just to clarify, this distributor is the same as the one fitted to vh 6cyl, or its the efi version for the vk?
I thought both these dissys were similar?
didn't the EFI have the same dizzy as the VH and the carb model had EST?

Thats what I think too, though the efi dissy has a different advance curve from what I have read.
Both fairchild module triggered though.

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#18 orangeLJ

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Posted 11 May 2007 - 10:53 PM

(not meaning to steal the thread) but i have a problem with spark at them moment, so im thinking of fitting the MSD we have upstairs, but it was one my old man ran with points ignition, so an i use it with electronic ignition? My step dad seems to be an evil genius when it comes to these things, when people say no , he says yes, and generally wins.... so he has said yes already, and thinks he can make it work, so can he?

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#19 _82911_

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Posted 11 May 2007 - 11:04 PM

You guys need to work together to solve the problem... not hang shit on each other......

Mr Watson is right. They do have a harmonic induced problem at hi rpm.
Yes it can cause misfire. YES IT CAN BE OVERCOME...
Dave 720 is also right... the green (factory wire) is resiste and should be bypassed on an electronic ign dizzy setup.
Heath is also wise to the ways of the gremlins... It is right to presume that if you change the dizzy and it cures the problem. Then YES the dizzy was the problem.. BUT does it mean that the design of the dizzy is faulty???
I THINK NOT.....

BTW...Orange LJ, your old man is right (again)..... :rolleyes:

MSD box only needs to get a signal from an external triggering device to give a spark.That device could be points or a hall effect trigger or a reluctor (flying magnet).

Cheers Greg..

Edited by 82911, 11 May 2007 - 11:07 PM.

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#20 rodomo

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Posted 12 May 2007 - 02:10 AM

I wonder at what RPM would a standard and/or statically advanced VH (for reference) dissy start to "jump spark" to the next advanced cap post.
Isn't this why the V8 fairchild dissys had the bigger cap? Possible?

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#21 _devilsadvocate_

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Posted 12 May 2007 - 07:01 PM

I wonder at what RPM would a standard and/or statically advanced VH (for reference) dissy start to "jump spark" to the next advanced cap post.
Isn't this why the V8 fairchild dissys had the bigger cap? Possible?

Possibly. Just thought they increased the diameter to achieve more or less the same spacing b/w terminals as a six to stop any crossfire /shortsprobs with adjacent terminals due to hei etc

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#22 _Drag lc_

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Posted 12 May 2007 - 11:35 PM

hi, just to put my 2cents worth in here i am one of the people that D.J. Watson is talking about with the high speed missfire 5,500rpm to around 6,500rpm from memory, to cut a very long story short we tried 3 std electronic dizzys and in the end we sent the (new)msd digital 7 plus with the coil and the best 2 dizzys we had down south to a very reputable ignition place and they tested the hole set up on there test gig, after they put new pick up in it new bushes correct mech adv for our aplication and so on this all cost $400 and from our records when we put all our ignition stuff back on it did the same and i was not as wise as i am now and kept blaming the webers, so we finaly went back to the points dizzy and all is solved we are aware of the harmonics now. and we were using the dizzy only to trigger the msd as i am also aware of the resisted wire in the harness . hope this helps

Thanks Hayden

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#23 rodomo

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Posted 13 May 2007 - 12:13 AM

we are aware of the harmonics now.

Can you explain the harmonic problem?

Tonight I have been assembling the dash for my Commodore and noticed that the tacho (standard Commodore) redlines at 5800rpm which is in the zone of your problem.

Edited by rodomo, 13 May 2007 - 12:19 AM.

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#24 _why-psi_

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Posted 13 May 2007 - 12:30 AM

VK dizzys are different to VK. vk's had EST. they had a crank trigger on the flywheel

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#25 _dave720gtr_

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Posted 13 May 2007 - 12:32 AM

very intresting hayden there must be a way around this prob !i must say
i have never had a prob with one miss fire like that and we spinn my mates to 7000 rpm on a standed vk dizzy no msd ! strange ! 82911 would no how to over come the harmonic prob !or ice

cheers :spoton: