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cable clutch setup

Started by toryman76 , May 22 2008 09:48 PM

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#1 toryman76

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Posted 22 May 2008 - 09:48 PM

Ok guys i know I've asked a few questions about this setup before but I'm still struggling to understand how its going to work. i have the cable clutch mechanism in the car all ready to go. heres a few things i need clarifying:

1. Where does the cable pivot from? with the HZ style it has a bracket up under the dash behind the pedal in which the cable is located to.

2. Do i put the hole where the original Torana v8 cable would go?

3. What dimensions do i need to put the hook on top of the pedal? I have read some where on here that it needs to be 25mm above where it is on the HZ pedal to get the right travel.

If anyone has done this before or has any pictures it would be greatly appreciated. I'm sure this will help out others who wish to do the same too

Cheers

toryman76

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#2 _Toranamuk_

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Posted 22 May 2008 - 11:16 PM

The next conversion I do I'll take step by step photo's.

Throw the HZ clutch pedal & top cable mount bracket in the bin (or put it on e-bay).

Use a 6 cylinder or STARFIRE 4cyl to aussie 4 speed clutch pedal with the "hook" on the top of the pedal.

For use with the longer V8 clutch fork you will need to cut the hook off the top of the pedal & extend it by 25mm & reweld it to the pedal in the exact same position as you cut it off from.

For the hole in the firewall for the cable, you need to drill it 25mm up from the centre of the original 5/16 unc captive nut that is the original top mount for the 6cyl rat trap & V8 LH/LX cable mount. (not the stud, that is the lower of the mount assy)

Drill the hole just large enough for the cable to slip through. Use a large steel flat load bearing washer between the cable "flange" & the firewall.

Up under the dash you ill need a die grinder to trim up the panel above the clutch pedal to give it enough room to pivot, now that the top hook is longer. You will need to trim it up to the crush tube for the brake pedal mounting bolt.. BUT NOT INTO THE TUBE !!!

Use a UC 6 cylinder clutch cable.

See how you go. Theres stuff in this section under Supra conversion you can also look up.

The new hooks I am having made were suppost to be finished in febuary by the laser cutters, unfortunately I'm still waiting. When they're ready I'll do some C/O clutch pedals to suit V8 conversions.

Craig.

Edited by Toranamuk, 22 May 2008 - 11:20 PM.

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#3 TerrA LX

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Posted 22 May 2008 - 11:21 PM

And if u dont lengthen the pedal will u be snapping cables?

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#4 _Toranamuk_

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Posted 22 May 2008 - 11:28 PM

Shouldn't snap cables unless you leave the cable mounted low in the original position, then it would run uphill at a sharp angle from the firewall to the pedal.

If you dont modify the pedal, it simply means that the clutch pedal needs to sit approx 2" higher than the brake pedal because you need longer cable travel to disengage the clutch, as the V8 clutch fork is longer from the pivot point than the 6 cylinder clutch fork.

Craig

Edited by Toranamuk, 22 May 2008 - 11:29 PM.

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#5 toryman76

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Posted 22 May 2008 - 11:45 PM

1. Use a 6 cylinder or STARFIRE 4cyl to aussie 4 speed clutch pedal with the "hook" on the top of the pedal.

2. Use a UC 6 cylinder clutch cable.

Thanks heaps for the info Craig. Just a few more things:

1. Does someone have a picture of one of these so i can replicate the 'hook'? i have a LX 6cyl 3 speed pedal and a LX 4cyl Opel pedal.

2. Can i use the HZ cable that came with my setup? or will it be too short/long?

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#6 rodomo

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Posted 23 May 2008 - 12:35 AM

I have a UC 6cly pedal here somewhere if you want to copy it.
I just have to find it :blink:

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#7 _DocDamage_

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Posted 23 May 2008 - 06:41 AM

I use a HZ clutch pedal no probs. I did fit a UC handbrake & swing the clutch off the left hand side of the column though.

Russell

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#8 yel327

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Posted 23 May 2008 - 01:04 PM

HZ clutch pedal is no good to you either unless it's a late HZ V8 pedal ie with full cable clutch. In HX/HZ with the half rat-trap the extra leverage for the extra clutch travel was done in the rat-trap, not in the pedal. With late HZ and WB the V8 pedal has the hook further away from the centre (basically as described for the modified UC pedal), plus it pivots in a different hole than the 6cyl pedal that is closer to the floor. This is why you often see HQ-HZ's where people have put a 6cyl WB pedal into it, the pedal sits closer to the flat part of the floor as these models don't have the second pivot hole. If Holden had built a V8 UC they would have had to have done the same thing ie provide a lower pivot point and shorter pedal for the V8 (assuming it would have had a full cable clutch like the V and W series cars).

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#9 toryman76

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Posted 23 May 2008 - 02:40 PM

i have the half rat trap pedal from a HJ (or HX not sure) and the full cable pedal from a late HZ here. by further away from the centre do you mean upwards or further towards the firewall?

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#10 _DocDamage_

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Posted 23 May 2008 - 09:54 PM

Mine is a late HZ with the full cable.

Russell

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#11 toryman76

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Posted 24 May 2008 - 03:53 PM

how do i know when i have fully disengaged the clutch itself?

Heres what I've been mucking around with today:

Posted Image

How'd i do? Clutch pedal is to the floor in the pictures, and at rest it sits flush with the brake pedal.

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#12 yel327

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Posted 24 May 2008 - 04:52 PM

i have the half rat trap pedal from a HJ (or HX not sure) and the full cable pedal from a late HZ here. by further away from the centre do you mean upwards or further towards the firewall?

Half rat trap is HX and first half of HZ.

With the full cable HZ/WB the 6cyl pedal pivots in a hole above (vertically) the V8 pedal. The V8 pedal pivots in the same hole as only hole on previous models. As the 6cyl pedal pivot is up higher the bottom arm is longer and the hook arm is shorter (conversely the V8 bottom arm is shorter and the hook arm is longer). None of this really helps you with a Torana but it does demonstate what you need to achieve in the Torana. You can't move the pivot point, so you have to notch the metal above like you have done to clear the longer hook arm, and hence make the hole in the firewall higher than you would have to for a 6cyl (or what is in a UC).

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#13 rodomo

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Posted 25 May 2008 - 01:26 AM

Sorry for the late pics, I see you have it just about worked out but these measurements might still help?
Posted Image

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#14 toryman76

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Posted 25 May 2008 - 01:33 AM

thanks heaps for that. it will definately help. im still not convinced that what i have roughly knocked up is going to be adequate. should the clutch fork be able to go all the way to the bellhousing? also is the clutch plate and pressure plate different from the push type to the pull type?

thanks again,

toryman76

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#15 rodomo

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Posted 25 May 2008 - 02:00 AM

The fork should not bottom out in the slot in the bellhousing before the clutch has released.
You might be able to adjust the pivot height inside the bell housing but I'm not 100% sure.
From memory, the only difference in red clutch kits is the thrust bearing which varies with the collar depth.

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#16 _UC HATCH_

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Posted 25 May 2008 - 02:25 AM

Hi rodomo

Is that a pic of a unmodified pedal before the hook is lengthened.

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#17 rodomo

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Posted 25 May 2008 - 02:36 AM

Yes.
Standard UC pedal.

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#18 _UC HATCH_

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Posted 25 May 2008 - 02:44 AM

Thanks

Thought I missed you

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#19 rodomo

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Posted 25 May 2008 - 09:05 AM

You might be able to adjust the pivot height inside the bell housing but I'm not 100% sure.

The bell housing I have IS adjustable. V8 Commodore.

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#20 toryman76

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Posted 25 May 2008 - 12:24 PM

pretty sure mines from a HZ and before i put it in i cant say i noticed any sort of adjustment inside of it, not that i was looking for something like that though. wasn't aware that some had adjustment inside.

with the clutch pedal to the floor as it is i can wiggle the clutch plate...

cheers

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#21 toryman76

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Posted 25 May 2008 - 03:39 PM

heres the first one i made, looking pretty messy:
Posted Image

and heres the result. hopefully this won't need any more adjusting and i can fully weld it on. but i will hold off on that until i get a new clutch:
Posted Image

This has been done using the late HZ cable with the 'screw' done on the bellhousing. I hope this can be of use for others wishing to do something similar :rockon:

Big thanks to everyone on here who has helped me out.

Cheers!

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#22 _Toranamuk_

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Posted 25 May 2008 - 09:13 PM

Your pedal mod is fairly close to what I do, & up under the dash you've cut the right piece out, later if you clean it up with a die grinder just for cosmetic appearance & to avoid cutting yourself later.

By moving the pedal hook forward (like the HZ type) you may run out of cable adjustment, I just lift the original hook up 25mm, this leaves a greater gap between the firewall & the hook & seems to put the cable adjusting nut (at the bellhousing) in the middle of its range.

By the photo's your probably 25mm further forward with the hook than you need to be.

Well done on your mod & glad you've posted some pics for others to see.

Craig.

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#23 rodomo

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Posted 25 May 2008 - 09:18 PM

By the photo's your probably 25mm further forward with the hook than you need to be.

Well done on your mod & glad you've posted some pics for others to see.

I agree, compared to the earlier UC pic, it looks too close to the firewall.

I also agree with the pics and having a go yourself :spoton:

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#24 yel327

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Posted 25 May 2008 - 09:32 PM

I agree with the above. You've copied off an early HZ pedal which is the type that is half rat-trap, and pedal is the same for 6cyl and V8. See if you can get a WB V8 full cable pedal and copy where the hook is on it. Or just get a UC one and move the pedal further out.

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#25 _Toranamuk_

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Posted 25 May 2008 - 10:15 PM

The WB V8 full cable pedal & HX/Z pedal that uses the half cable half rat trap setup, pedals are exactly the same.

The 6cyl WB pedals have the same length hook as the UC torana pedal !!

The only difference is that the WB pedal has a spring that is mounted around the pedal mounting bolt & when in position is puts a light load on the pedal that pulls it toward the floor, giving the cable a light load that makes the "constant run" thrust bearing some load on the pressure plate, & also keeps just enough load on the cable to help keep the adjusting nut from un-winding itself.

Craig.

Edited by Toranamuk, 25 May 2008 - 10:17 PM.