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308 oil pump pickup issues

Started by UC308Hatch , Sep 09 2018 04:08 PM

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45 replies to this topic

#26 UC308Hatch

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Posted 11 September 2018 - 04:42 PM

Thanks Guys, between you alI I definitely have a few things to try & see what happens.

I have looked at a few threads on oil filters, trying to get feel for what brand/s might be the best to prevent drain back?

Don't think I have anymore AC Delco's left, brought a box of 24 years ago, from comment above maybe a good thing..... so either Genuine, repco, ryco or ???

Edited by UC308Hatch, 11 September 2018 - 04:46 PM.

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#27 hanra

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Posted 11 September 2018 - 05:23 PM

Ryco has been working so far for me.

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#28 VinnieSLR

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Posted 11 September 2018 - 06:55 PM

Wondering if this might help your issue?

https://www.whichcar...ump-tech-torque

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#29 UC308Hatch

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Posted 11 September 2018 - 07:45 PM

Hi Vinnie, interesting read, thanks for that. I do recall reading it previously, but had totally forgotten about it. Might be an option if I can't sort it out.

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#30 ozyozyozy

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Posted 12 September 2018 - 06:39 PM

Thought about it while reading some other comments.
I'll go along with the filter aswell, anti drain back valve, possibly causing issues.
Prob recommend as said a fram or k&n filter, bit stronger construction, anti drain back valves, filter paper in them is strong doesnt break down if you get a spike in pressure.

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#31 CI 0308

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Posted 13 September 2018 - 09:10 AM

Have you looked at the Aussie V8 forum. Some of the stuff on there is amazing. There is a lot of discussion on oil pumps and a really good sticky on mods to improve oiling on the Holden V8.

Sent from my Redmi Note 4 using Tapatalk

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#32 Shiney005

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Posted 13 September 2018 - 10:34 AM

This problem has been around for decades. I have half a dozen 308s that sit for long periods of time. With a couple of them, I know I can leave them for a year and they will be fine. With others, after three or four months the oil has drained out and the pump needs to be primed. The L34 suffers from it even though it carries an extra litre or two in the oil cooler which is mounted higher than the pump. This is because the anti drainback valve in the filter prevents this oil from returning to the pump. (Its job)

While your car is sitting, the pump slowly empties itself into the sump and the filter remains full. But you have a pump with no prime and a full oil filter isn't going to do a thing as it is on the pressure side.

This video shows a forum members (koalasprint) solution to priming the pump. He made the adaptor from an old filter.

More info on Ned Sassine's pump. http://www.gmh-toran...esign-oil-pump/

Changing the subject a little bit, a killer pump with heaps of flow and pressure, or for that matter the Moroso accumulator that Andrew posted won't fix all the 308's oil problems if you are revving it hard on the circuit. The problem there is that the oil can't get back to the sump quick enough and you end up filling the rocker covers. Plenty has been written about it in here. (And the AV8 forum Brett, but we won't go there!! )

Edited by Shiney005, 13 September 2018 - 10:36 AM.

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#33 UC308Hatch

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Posted 13 September 2018 - 08:24 PM

Thanks again for all your thoughts & links, it is much appreciated & somewhat reassuring to know that I'm not the only one that has had this issue. Yes I have been doing a fair bit of reading dint posting the original post, on a few forums. Thanks to Koalasprint for making his priming video.

I did an oil change on my daily tonight (253VH) so now I am 1/2 way there with my priming adaptor (thanks to its old oil filter), quick hit with the mig tomorrow, so if the weekend allows all systems go for priming.

I have cut the Repco Filter (off the VH) apart & will keep its guts to compare with the AC Delco on the Hatch & then the Ryco that just went on the VH (when it's changed next). They didn't have any Fram's or K&N's in stock..... maybe next time. I was surprised how much more the Ryco weighed than the Repco when I was at the store. The inner cage looked heavier in construction.....

Will be interested to see if the anti-drain back valve has worked on the AC Delco on the problematic hatch, when I take it off to prime the pump.......

Edited by UC308Hatch, 13 September 2018 - 08:30 PM.

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#34 Shiney005

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Posted 14 September 2018 - 11:22 AM

Please keep us up to date as more info comes to hand. It will make for interesting reading.

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#35 UC308Hatch

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Posted 15 September 2018 - 06:20 PM

Ok so wife had an extra shift today, so I ended up getting to the shed.

Pulled the filter off & it was at least 1/2 full (spilt a kittle taking it off), so maybe just the pump drained back....

Fitted my newly made primer (thanks for the idea Steve) & got pumping. Hey presto

The SupaCheap hand pump did the job, filter back on started it & OIL PRESSURE back to normal. Don't look too close at the welding, mig was set a bit hot. Time will tell if it happens again.......

I did turn the engine over a few turns with a socket on the crank whilst operating the hand pump, once oil started to flow.

Edited by UC308Hatch, 15 September 2018 - 06:25 PM.

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#36 hanra

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Posted 15 September 2018 - 09:14 PM

What filter did you end up using?

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#37 UC308Hatch

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Posted 15 September 2018 - 10:33 PM

Hi Brad, I put the same AC Delco filter back on for now, until I move it to my workshop & do an oil & filter change. Will go Ryco when I do, but have a couple of other jobs to do first.

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#38 UC308Hatch

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Posted 16 September 2018 - 08:53 AM

Thinking about it overnight, as happy as I am that I have oil pressure again, if I ever have to do it again I will fit an oil filter in the return line

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#39 Shiney005

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Posted 16 September 2018 - 10:15 AM

What's that sway bar setup you have there Ron?

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#40 UC308Hatch

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Posted 16 September 2018 - 12:05 PM

What's that sway bar setup you have there Ron?

It's a front mount 5 hole adjustable 25mm LX torry 'Signature Swaybar" from Todd Selby adapted to suit UC since no one does one to suit UC. I run a 18mm 3 hole adjustable 'Detroit 9" ' UC style of the same brand on the rear.

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#41 Shiney005

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Posted 16 September 2018 - 03:57 PM

Looks nice. Have you tried different bolt holes to see how much adjustability it has?

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#42 UC308Hatch

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Posted 16 September 2018 - 05:07 PM

At the moment I have both set on the middle setting, where I initially set them. Have been playing with other stuff, want to try increasing the front stiffness a little & see how that goes, but pretty how with how it's handling now.

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#43 Redslur

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Posted 18 September 2018 - 08:13 AM

An old trick to this problem was to jack the back of the vehicle up and leave it overnight and starting it the next morning. All oil drains back to the right areas and you have oil pressure on start up☺️

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#44 UC308Hatch

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Posted 20 March 2020 - 03:33 PM

OK, it’s been a while since I have posted on this topic and have had to re-prime the hatch oil pump once again during that time. (The hand operated oil primer pump works well - just pull the filter, fit the adaptor & pump the oil thru then put the filter back on & away I go, 5-10minutes & good to go - oil pressure straight away).

I now have three used filters for comparison, a Repco, a Ryco & a AC Delco filter that I fitted to the VH during that time and have cut them apart as pictured below.

The filters are obviously all different in their element construction. But the Ryco anti-drain back seems to be the most positive (stronger in elasticity) in construction & probably sealing. The AC Delco appears to be that weak in the drain back seal that it may let oil past (not a positive seal), I can’t really tell with the Repco as I used the mating surface to make my oil priming pump (but it feels very non elastic like the AC Delco).

The AC Delco filter appears to have the least number of plates in the filter element, the Repco and Ryco ones maybe similar but I will cut them apart and stretch them out to see which one has the longest element in it.

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#45 hanra

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Posted 20 March 2020 - 03:40 PM

I recall I fitted one of those PFA10's and Im sure I had less oil pressure? I didnt run it for very long and went back to a Ryco Z30.

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#46 UC308Hatch

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Posted 20 March 2020 - 04:20 PM

Hi Brad, that’s interesting to know.

Ok once cut apart & stretched out the length of the elements are.....

2290mm AC Delco

2810mm Repco

2940mm Ryco

A substantial difference in length in the filter elements. Obviously I have no idea what the micron rating of the three elements is I’m only comparing the length of the filter elements when stretched out & assuming that the elements are all the same micron rating the AC Delco will block first followed by the Repco and slightly thereafter the Ryco.

As I said previously the AC Delco filters that I have had probably 20+ years old and may be constructed differently now, the Ryco and Repco‘s are recent purchases.

For me personally going on the fact the Ryco appears to have a better drain back valve and more overall filtration area I think the extra five dollars in cost of the Ryco over the Repco would be my choice. I will be fitting this one to the hatch when I do my next oil change. Hopefully this might remedy my drain back problem.

Just for the hell of it, pictured below is how much grit, rubbish, whatever that the filter has collected during the last 5000 km of service of the old the VH 253 (of unknown kms).