135 replies to this topic

[yel327]

If you look at the geometry in that PDF you can see the distance between the 6cyl and V8 pivot holes is not in the same plane as the pivot to the hook, so you’d have to get the angles right from the picture. I don’t have a 6cyl pedal to measure though, threw all them away. I only have V8 pedals.

[Lc69]

Thanks for the info....very helpful.

Now I’m scratching my head......60mm is what my pedal has now, and form what I’ve seen is what some of the other 6cyl pedals have as well.
So if that is a V8 pedal, and the distance is 60mm........where’s the extra travel come from?
Is there more stroke at the pedal pad? Ie there is a greater distance under the pedal than what I have?
The two versions side by side would be very handy.......will get to the bottom of this eventually ha ha.

If you look at the geometry in that PDF you can see the distance between the 6cyl and V8 pivot holes is not in the same plane as the pivot to the hook, so you’d have to get the angles right from the picture. I don’t have a 6cyl pedal to measure though, threw all them away. I only have V8 pedals.

[Lc69]

So just to confirm.....this is a 6cyl pedal modified for a V8.....straight pull cable?

I wonder if the pedal sat higher than the others......giving more stroke.......if that’s the case?
My pedal is 60mm........but will not disengage at full stroke........It defiantly needs more cable pull.


Thanks for all this info......it might be raising more questions, but it’s helping for sure.

Edited by Lc69, 02 January 2021 - 07:50 PM.

[yel327]

The extra travel comes from the ratio of pad to pivot and hook to pivot. On the 6cyl pedal the pad is further away and the hook is closer to the pivot. On the V8 pedal the pivot is moved down to the lower hole but the hook and pad stay in the same places, so you get more hook travel for the same amount of pad travel. On that parts catalogue scan I put up you will be able to measure the difference in distance from the 6cyl pivot hole to the centre of the hook against the V8 hole to the same location. 6cyl top, V8 bottom.
The geometry may be different with a Torana, as the pad arc may be smaller

So just to confirm.....this is a 6cyl pedal modified for a V8.....straight pull cable?

I wonder if the pedal sat higher than the others......giving more stroke.......if that’s the case?
My pedal is 60mm........but will not disengage at full stroke........It defiantly needs more cable pull.


Thanks for all this info......it might be raising more questions, but it’s helping for sure.

No it is an original V8 HZ or WB V8 manual full cable pedal.

Edited by yel327, 02 January 2021 - 07:54 PM.

[Lc69]

Ok thanks for confirming.
So I just roughly scaled the drawing as suggested. I even checked the cable end dimensions to confirm it’s roughly to scale.
Looks like the V8 is 60mm and the 6cy is 48mm. Give or take a millimeter.

I guess it comes down to the rest of the pedal geometry and travel under foot.
I know my pedal has 60mm and is not enough......the pedal ratio is 280/60....so 280 from pedal pad to pivot.
It only has about 120mm of stroke at the pedal pad.....but all the pedals sit level

The extra travel comes from the ratio of pad to pivot and hook to pivot. On the 6cyl pedal the pad is further away and the hook is closer to the pivot. On the V8 pedal the pivot is moved down to the lower hole but the hook and pad stay in the same places, so you get more hook travel for the same amount of pad travel. On that parts catalogue scan I put up you will be able to measure the difference in distance from the 6cyl pivot hole to the centre of the hook against the V8 hole to the same location. 6cyl top, V8 bottom.
The geometry may be different with a Torana, as the pad arc may be smaller
No it is an original V8 HZ or WB V8 manual full cable pedal.

Edited by Lc69, 02 January 2021 - 08:03 PM.

[Lc69]

Hi Yel327, I don’t suppose you could measure the pedal from the foot pad to the pivot?
Thanks for everyone’s help, so far, every little bit of info helps.

I think I just need to establish the correct amount of cable pull required and then make the pedal ratio work.
I’m just concerned my pedal might be heavy because the travel under foot is less than the H series, and hence I need a different pedal ratio to get the amount of cable pull required to disengage the clutch.

I’m not far away from be able to trial some mods on the car.....just need some time.

Just found a random one in the pile under my bench. 60mm from the centre of the hook to the centre of the pivot.
941C7128-4A83-4C1B-B8B0-8532008F3A90.jpeg
D6FFE6A7-28DF-4FAF-B917-C8D5D61548B4.jpeg

Edited by Lc69, 03 January 2021 - 10:21 AM.

[Lc69]

This is the current setup, using a 4cyl pedal.
Only mods to the pedal have been to narrow it around the steering column.
The pedal sits against the stop, level with the others.
C is the travel available at the pedal, not the pad to floor dimension seen in some of the manuals for adjusting the cable.
That dimension is more like 140mm.....which I think could be falling short of the H series and Commodore.....maybe part of my issue?

Approx Dimensions in mm.

A = 280
B = 60
C = 110
D = 25

What I really need to know is what the required D dimension is.
So basically what cable stroke is required to disengage the clutch and have the release point in a good place.
My experiment with a truck strap had me guessing something like 40mm.........but it’s hard to know without a running driving car.

 4C13F463-B0C5-4516-9B4A-E95ADF807233.jpeg   43.25K   2 downloads

I should also say, I am using the dellow fork and thrust bearing, with a std replacement clutch kit.
Belhousing in original Holden HZ, WB etc.

Edited by Lc69, 03 January 2021 - 02:24 PM.

[rexy]

So I finally got a chance to measure the cable pull in the hatch.

Its a holden V8 /R154 commodore style cable clutch setup.

 

The cable pull is approx 40mm - hard to measure under the dash, easier under the car....

 

So yes, it seems likely you need to find a way to increase your length of cable pull.

[S pack]

This is the current setup, using a 4cyl pedal.
Only mods to the pedal have been to narrow it around the steering column.
The pedal sits against the stop, level with the others.
C is the travel available at the pedal, not the pad to floor dimension seen in some of the manuals for adjusting the cable.
That dimension is more like 140mm.....which I think could be falling short of the H series and Commodore.....maybe part of my issue?

Approx Dimensions in mm.

A = 280
B = 60
C = 110
D = 25

What I really need to know is what the required D dimension is.
So basically what cable stroke is required to disengage the clutch and have the release point in a good place.
My experiment with a truck strap had me guessing something like 40mm.........but it’s hard to know without a running driving car.

4C13F463-B0C5-4516-9B4A-E95ADF807233.jpeg

I should also say, I am using the dellow fork and thrust bearing, with a std replacement clutch kit.
Belhousing in original Holden HZ, WB etc.

As a reference I just measured the distance of travel of my LJ 6cyl clutch pedal. I have 180mm to the floor mat, which sits on carpet upon about 8mm felt underlay.

Seems to me there is something not right if you only have 110 mm of travel in the clutch pedal to hit the floor/carpet?

Based upon the figures you have provided, with the cable hook 60mm above the pedal pivot point and a pedal length of 280mm below the pivot point, with a pedal travel of 180mm I calculate the cable pull distance to be 49mm.
 

[Lc69]

Thanks guys......very helpful.
So the 40mm matches what I tested with a truck strap, rotating the tail shaft by hand.
This really helps ease my mind now.

The pedal travel has me baffled now.....all of my pedals are level.
The brake pedal is standard and against the stop, the accelerator is a rare spares cable conversion kit that was adjusted to match the brake pedal.
The clutch pedal is the 4cyl pedal, just made narrow under the pivot to clear the column which was moved over.

The rubber stops on the brake and clutch pedal are new......but that’s not going to make that much difference.
The underlay/carpet is 10-15mm, but very soft....compressible to within a few mm of what you have by the sounds of it.

I’m going to measure again......but something seems different for sure.

Edited by Lc69, 03 January 2021 - 07:49 PM.

[S pack]

Does the bottom rear edge of the pedal pad touch the carpet or is the pad sitting away from the carpet when the pedal is at the limit of it's travel?

 

Some pics of your pedals might help.

Edited by S pack, 03 January 2021 - 08:19 PM.

[Lc69]

Ok, so the brake pedal is a little higher than the clutch. 170mm top of pad to top of carpet.
The clutch pedal is 150mm, top of pad to top of carpet.
The pedals are around 20mm thick.....so I theoretically have around 130mm of travel.

The pedal actually hits at the bottom edge due to the shape of the floor so when I measure the actual distance swept....it’s around 125mm.
It’s hard to measure by my self, but I’m probably getting closer to 30mm at the top of the pedal. 26-28mm

The clutch pedal had a reinforcing plate welded in the back of it.....maybe it pulled in just a little? Possible.

If I was to “reset” the pedal to have another 20mm of travel, and line up with the brake pedal exactly.......I think I would still fall short of the 40mm needed.
And this obviously confirms my pedals are falling short of the 180mm measured by S pack.......which is very interesting.

[Lc69]

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[S pack]

My measurement was from the back of pad at bottom edge to floor mat. 7" or 180mm.

[Lc69]

So I’m around 30mm short.....interesting.

I guess I could get both pedals reset and adjust the accelerator to match.

My measurement was from the back of pad at bottom edge to floor mat. 7" or 180mm.

[S pack]

Measurement taken from point where bottom back edge of clutch pedal pad contacts floor mat (point of maximum travel) to bottom back edge of pedal pad with pedal at rest.

 LJ Clutch pedal height off floor.jpg   66.35K   1 downloads

Edited by S pack, 03 January 2021 - 09:05 PM.

[Lc69]

Well that’s given me a few things to consider.....
I’m leaning towards resetting the clutch to match the brake pedal, and then using an extended hook to make up the rest.
Just not sure if the pedal will be too heavy.

[S pack]

As a reference I just measured the distance of travel of my LJ 6cyl clutch pedal. I have 180mm to the floor mat, which sits on carpet upon about 8mm felt underlay.

Seems to me there is something not right if you only have 110 mm of travel in the clutch pedal to hit the floor/carpet?

Based upon the figures you have provided, with the cable hook 60mm above the pedal pivot point and a pedal length of 280mm below the pivot point, with a pedal travel of 180mm I calculate the cable pull distance to be 49mm 39mm.
 

Correction in my previous post.
 

[S pack]

Well that’s given me a few things to consider.....
I’m leaning towards resetting the clutch to match the brake pedal, and then using an extended hook to make up the rest.
Just not sure if the pedal will be too heavy.

Agree reset the clutch pedal to gain more travel. You could even have the pedal set to sit 5mm above the brake pedal pad height. You will probably never really notice it.

Increase the distance between the centre of the cable hook to the pedal pivot point to 65mm With 180mm of pedal travel and 65mm hook height you should get 41mm of cable pull.
 

[rodomo]

So I’m around 30mm short.....interesting.

I guess I could get both pedals reset and adjust the accelerator to match.
 

No. The accelerator should be lower than the brake usually. It works on a different ratio. With the clutch cable? What ever stroke you get at the pedal is what you will get at the fork.

[yel327]

Dimension A is about 250mm on a HZ V8 cable pedal.

 

V8's also have a different ratio throttle pedal to 6cyl when a cable throttle is utilised.

[Lc69]

Ok, so I feel like the mystery has been solved now.
Just need to pull the pedal out and modify even more. Just to close the loop, here's a few more pics to clarify the situation.

I also found some adjustment info for VS and HZ that suggest they both target around the 160-170mm of pedal travel.

 Screenshot_20210104-194030_Photos~2.jpg   200.64K   4 downloads

 Screenshot_20210104-194159_Gallery~2.jpg   89K   3 downloads

Edited by Lc69, 04 January 2021 - 07:45 PM.

[S pack]

Tony, do you have a std LC/LJ 6cyl clutch pedal to use as a guide. The pedal is quite curved.

[Lc69]

No unfortunately, I'm converting from Auto.
The only other pedal I have is the Auto brake pedal.

Tony, do you have a std LC/LJ 6cyl clutch pedal to use as a guide. The pedal is quite curved.

[S pack]

No unfortunately, I'm converting from Auto.
The only other pedal I have is the Auto brake pedal.
 

OK, I'll see if I can trace around a spare pedal I have onto paper, scan that into a PDF and email it to you. PM me your email address.