And is it easy to learn?
Leadwiping
Started by
LC69GTR
, Nov 08 2005 12:21 PM
32 replies to this topic
#1
LC69GTR
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Posted 08 November 2005 - 12:21 PM
Has any one done Leadwiping and is it better then bog?
And is it easy to learn?
And is it easy to learn?
#2
_Yella SLuR_
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Posted 08 November 2005 - 01:26 PM
You won't be able to learn it anywhere now legally, because lead wiping is illegal. Suppose to stick better than bog, and less suseptable to cracking like the epoxy bog formulations.
Our resto teacher did briefly advise us how it is done, blow torch/oxy, block of lead and a scraper.
Our resto teacher did briefly advise us how it is done, blow torch/oxy, block of lead and a scraper.
#3
_smiley_
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Posted 08 November 2005 - 02:49 PM
Why is it illegal?????It was the only way to hold an FJ together 
#4
_Yella SLuR_
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Posted 08 November 2005 - 03:04 PM
Lead and lead poisioning. Blame the greenies.
#5
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Posted 08 November 2005 - 03:28 PM
Bugger Damb tree huggers 
Thanks anyway Yella SLuR
Thanks anyway Yella SLuR
Edited by LC69GTR, 08 November 2005 - 03:28 PM.
#6
_Yella SLuR_
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Posted 08 November 2005 - 03:54 PM
Haven't been fishing for a while, are you still allowed to use lead sinkers?
#7
LC69GTR
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Posted 08 November 2005 - 04:52 PM
LOL Last time I went fishing there were 3 things different I had to have a licence, did not get sea sick and we caught no fish but I was able to use Sinkers.
I guess i better start mixing the bog up
I guess i better start mixing the bog up
#8
_finer70_
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Posted 08 November 2005 - 05:39 PM
Now lets get things correct.
The banning of commercial lead wiping had NOTHING to do with the GREENIES.
Without seeming to defend them, if you are going to blame someone be accurate.
It has a lot to do with Occupational Health & Safety. The fumes from molten lead are toxic and given enough it WILL KILL YOU.
So following sound OH&S controls using the Hierachy of Control, Substitution using bog is a more friendly alternative.
As for Lead holding any car together !!!!!. The lead wiping was only a cosmetic used to restores surface finish.
LC & LJ's had lead wiping on the nose cone at each guard and the turret joint at the rear but the joints were first spot welded.
Given sound panel repair using appropriate welding techniques, there is no reason to want to use lead. The necessary removal of fluxes that are acidic and a
medium to initiate rust is another good reason not to use it.
By 6he way Is it easy to learn? No it takes many housrs of practice.
The banning of commercial lead wiping had NOTHING to do with the GREENIES.
Without seeming to defend them, if you are going to blame someone be accurate.
It has a lot to do with Occupational Health & Safety. The fumes from molten lead are toxic and given enough it WILL KILL YOU.
So following sound OH&S controls using the Hierachy of Control, Substitution using bog is a more friendly alternative.
As for Lead holding any car together !!!!!. The lead wiping was only a cosmetic used to restores surface finish.
LC & LJ's had lead wiping on the nose cone at each guard and the turret joint at the rear but the joints were first spot welded.
Given sound panel repair using appropriate welding techniques, there is no reason to want to use lead. The necessary removal of fluxes that are acidic and a
medium to initiate rust is another good reason not to use it.
By 6he way Is it easy to learn? No it takes many housrs of practice.
Edited by finer70, 08 November 2005 - 05:43 PM.
#9
_Yella SLuR_
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Posted 08 November 2005 - 07:05 PM
To be 100% correct lead is believed to cause brain damage and a reduction in neural processes, I don't think that it will kill you unless of course a big block was to drop on your head. It is a heavy metal which accumulates in the body.
Yes, correct, cosmetic filler. Old fella's claim it used to stick to panels and move better with the metal than newer acrylic fillers. Bog works for me. The key to getting bog to work is to provide a good keyed surface, i.e. correct sanding technique.
DON'T TRY THIS AT HOME KIDS
Brainiac Inspired - Just as a little experiment, try sanding some bog, let the dust flow out of your hand and stick a cigarette lighter next to it......The shit's highly flammable.
GREENIES - Any do gooder, I don't discriminate! n. a term used to describe a person not capable of doing anything practical themselves that seek to stop any other person from doing stuff thus restore the balance.
On a serious note, I like my bog. As with all things, they develop with time. I still remember the first acrylic house paints that used to wash off the wall!!!
Yes, correct, cosmetic filler. Old fella's claim it used to stick to panels and move better with the metal than newer acrylic fillers. Bog works for me. The key to getting bog to work is to provide a good keyed surface, i.e. correct sanding technique.
DON'T TRY THIS AT HOME KIDS
Brainiac Inspired - Just as a little experiment, try sanding some bog, let the dust flow out of your hand and stick a cigarette lighter next to it......The shit's highly flammable.
GREENIES - Any do gooder, I don't discriminate! n. a term used to describe a person not capable of doing anything practical themselves that seek to stop any other person from doing stuff thus restore the balance.
On a serious note, I like my bog. As with all things, they develop with time. I still remember the first acrylic house paints that used to wash off the wall!!!
Edited by Yella SLuR, 08 November 2005 - 07:24 PM.
#10
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Posted 08 November 2005 - 08:55 PM
Jeez <_< Finer lighten up bloke the whole FJ being held together with lead wipe is an old adage,like if you remove the grease nipples from an EH front end it would collapse
#11
surfmaster
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Posted 08 November 2005 - 10:14 PM
Yes but you have to submit an environmental impact statement first and throwing them at the fish is definitely forbidden. (Throwing them at greenies however is permissible as long as you yell "fore" first)Haven't been fishing for a while, are you still allowed to use lead sinkers?
#12
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Posted 09 November 2005 - 10:19 AM
I'm not sure if Leadwiping is legal or not , however there is a bloke just out of Sydney who actually teaches you how to do it in his classes.And in my opinion the end result is superior to bog,unfortunately it is seldom used now and is becoming a dying art ,as not too many blokes use that method,,,,,,,,,,,bit like most people use 2pack know rather than acrylic...................
#13
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Posted 09 November 2005 - 11:46 AM
ROFLMFAO!Yes but you have to submit an environmental impact statement first and throwing them at the fish is definitely forbidden. (Throwing them at greenies however is permissible as long as you yell "fore" first)Haven't been fishing for a while, are you still allowed to use lead sinkers?
That's damn funny!
The thing is, if you can leadwipe stil, where the hell would you get the lead to do it?
Something i just thought of, anyone wanna write up an article on how to bog properly, as if a good job is done, the results come out good.
Cheers
ToranaGuy
#14
_Herne_
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Posted 09 November 2005 - 12:05 PM
It is my understanding that lead wiping was still legal, however the content of the lead used in lead wiping has been reduced and replaced with other metals whos names I cant remember. Where they buy the new 'composite' lead from I have no idea.
The guy from Sydney Restorations in Crookwell gives a lead wiping demo when the shows clubs around his workshop.
He explains what has been done to the lead content and its effects, something like "it still works but not as good as it used to"...
Now maybe he is wrong or possibly I am with my line of thinking but anyone going there should ask him for a demo on lead wiping and I am sure he wil explain it all in some depth as he did with us.
Cheers
Herne
The guy from Sydney Restorations in Crookwell gives a lead wiping demo when the shows clubs around his workshop.
He explains what has been done to the lead content and its effects, something like "it still works but not as good as it used to"...
Now maybe he is wrong or possibly I am with my line of thinking but anyone going there should ask him for a demo on lead wiping and I am sure he wil explain it all in some depth as he did with us.
Cheers
Herne
#15
_Fairdinkum_
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Posted 09 November 2005 - 12:20 PM
Getting the lead is the least of your problems,!!!!!!
#16
_Herne_
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Posted 09 November 2005 - 01:21 PM
in all honesty it's prolly best to leave lead wiping to the experts 
Cheers
Herne
Cheers
Herne
#17
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Posted 09 November 2005 - 01:31 PM
Yeah i agree herne,saw a bloke doing a repair using the lead wipe way,he did a awesome job on the repair,but he had years of experience,,,,,,thats why i said,getting the lead is the least of your worries,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
#18
_ToranaGuy_
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Posted 09 November 2005 - 10:34 PM
I've started to rub back my LH torana. There is FACTORY lead in it, around some of the joins between the panels, near the boot rubber. I know it's factory, as the panel beater who fixed up the rust in my torry said it's never been hit in the arse before me. It's reasonably neat, but not neat enough for me, the lead that is, so i might hit it with my dremel and a few sanding stones to smooth it out some more.
I wonder when GMH stopped the practice?
Cheers
ToranaGuy
I wonder when GMH stopped the practice?
Cheers
ToranaGuy
#19
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Posted 10 November 2005 - 03:12 PM
i didnt know that it was possible to make too much of a stuff up with bog anyway. its not like you cant just sand it off. The only hard thing i have found is trying to bog in a crease. like where there used to be a crease down the side of your car but one of the dumb asholes of this world (maybe a greenie) has driven into it and dented the crease inwards and then taken off. If anyone has any good advice on an easier way to bog the side of your dented car to make it look like the crease was never touched then it would be a great read.
#20
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Posted 13 November 2005 - 08:29 PM
I was taught to lead wipe earlier this year at a Sydney Tafe college.
The lead is mixed with tin and you can get different percentages of tin/lead
rods.
Louie
The lead is mixed with tin and you can get different percentages of tin/lead
rods.
Louie
#21
_Yella SLuR_
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Posted 13 November 2005 - 08:45 PM
Workingprogress, basic panel-beating. Some good night courses in car restoration also cover it (repair rusted corner of door skin, hammer smacks in the door, and chisel half way through a door panel, only after you learn how to make a hub cap and wheel chock though). Don't know what car you have, but if LH or earlier with no side intrusion bars would be basic dolly and hammer, and possibly a few heat shrinks. If the later, and on the intrusion bar, you are going to need an Easy-beat.
For the basics there is also a good book at Supercheap (hate that word). It's a Gregory's or something. There's one on panelbeating, and one on spraypainting, about $20 each. Both have pretty good information on how you go about stuff.
All the above should only require a think skim of bog, rather than 5-10mm thick like what your proposing sounds like.
For the basics there is also a good book at Supercheap (hate that word). It's a Gregory's or something. There's one on panelbeating, and one on spraypainting, about $20 each. Both have pretty good information on how you go about stuff.
All the above should only require a think skim of bog, rather than 5-10mm thick like what your proposing sounds like.
#22
davelh
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Posted 15 November 2005 - 04:32 PM
f*ck me next they will outlaw soldering!
ToranaGuy
Yes i would say all earlier cars have lead wipe in them (panel joins etc) and the reason they stopped this practice is because now it is all about profit
it would take half the time to bog the joins than lead wiping so that what they do
remember they dont build em like they used to
cheers
dave
ToranaGuy
Yes i would say all earlier cars have lead wipe in them (panel joins etc) and the reason they stopped this practice is because now it is all about profit
it would take half the time to bog the joins than lead wiping so that what they do
remember they dont build em like they used to
cheers
dave
#23
_gm3300_
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Posted 15 November 2005 - 05:11 PM
most cars these days have joints hidden behind plastic
trims or behind the bumpers. When was the last time a
car was made that had a front or back valence panel
(probably a UC as a guess).
davelh, that haven't outlawed soldering yet, but they
do sell lead free stuff.
grant
trims or behind the bumpers. When was the last time a
car was made that had a front or back valence panel
(probably a UC as a guess).
davelh, that haven't outlawed soldering yet, but they
do sell lead free stuff.
grant
#24
_lonemonaro_
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Posted 24 November 2005 - 05:45 PM
Hi Guys,
I have never done Lead wiping, but I have seen it done and it's brilliant. I was surprised at how easy it is done by an experienced hand. Body filler does have it's place, but I would like option of lead wiping to be left open.
The Lead wiping that I saw, they were using normal Solder Sticks that every Hardware sells.
Hardware shops sell Solder Sticks lengths of about 12 inches long, and as 60/40 or 50/50.
That is the ratio of "TIN to LEAD" ; ie 60% TIN to 40% LEAD.
50% TIN to 50% LEAD, has a lower melting temperature to melt when soldering.
It is more convenient for people to use body filler compared to Lead wiping, because it is easier and faster.
Any soldering or Lead wiping involves a correctly Temperatured Hot Copper soldering Iron, Sal Ammoniac to "Tin" your Copper soldering Iron, Flux, Spirits of Salts [ Hydrochloric Acid ] to etch and prepare the site to be soldered and a damp leather patch on a piece of board to smooth out the solder in Lead wiping.
No wonder people prefer to use body filler, as it's less involved.
Kind regards
George
I have never done Lead wiping, but I have seen it done and it's brilliant. I was surprised at how easy it is done by an experienced hand. Body filler does have it's place, but I would like option of lead wiping to be left open.
The Lead wiping that I saw, they were using normal Solder Sticks that every Hardware sells.
Hardware shops sell Solder Sticks lengths of about 12 inches long, and as 60/40 or 50/50.
That is the ratio of "TIN to LEAD" ; ie 60% TIN to 40% LEAD.
50% TIN to 50% LEAD, has a lower melting temperature to melt when soldering.
It is more convenient for people to use body filler compared to Lead wiping, because it is easier and faster.
Any soldering or Lead wiping involves a correctly Temperatured Hot Copper soldering Iron, Sal Ammoniac to "Tin" your Copper soldering Iron, Flux, Spirits of Salts [ Hydrochloric Acid ] to etch and prepare the site to be soldered and a damp leather patch on a piece of board to smooth out the solder in Lead wiping.
No wonder people prefer to use body filler, as it's less involved.
Kind regards
George
Edited by lonemonaro, 24 November 2005 - 05:47 PM.
#25
Tiny
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Posted 24 November 2005 - 06:55 PM
I'm lucky enough to be doing a welding course at a community college in sydney at the moment. The instructor is a car restorer who will use bog - Nikki for one purpose only.. and that is the purpose it was desgined for! A LIGHT skim before painting.
The way he put it to me to repair a hit to any car, is to reverse the impact. You need to undo the damage to the metal by shrinking or stretching the metal back into place using heat, hammers and dollies etc.
He restores cars to original, currently he;s working on a Mustang, a Karman Ghia, and an EH!
He's been a circuit racer/hillclimb champ in the past and knows his stuff. he is also the one who teached the automotive body repair short course and i'll be doing that after this welding course! TIne to get moving on repairing my torana i think
People like this, and skills like leadwiping should be learnt by us younger generation lest we loose these skills as the old guys die out!
I'm sick of bog... I want to try and do the torry the right way! And learn a new skill in the process
Cheers!
The way he put it to me to repair a hit to any car, is to reverse the impact. You need to undo the damage to the metal by shrinking or stretching the metal back into place using heat, hammers and dollies etc.
He restores cars to original, currently he;s working on a Mustang, a Karman Ghia, and an EH!
He's been a circuit racer/hillclimb champ in the past and knows his stuff. he is also the one who teached the automotive body repair short course and i'll be doing that after this welding course! TIne to get moving on repairing my torana i think
People like this, and skills like leadwiping should be learnt by us younger generation lest we loose these skills as the old guys die out!
I'm sick of bog... I want to try and do the torry the right way! And learn a new skill in the process
Cheers!
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