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VR/VS Starter motor

Started by _MAWLER_ , Feb 24 2006 02:17 PM

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22 replies to this topic

#1 _MAWLER_

Guests

Posted 24 February 2006 - 02:17 PM

Hi ppl,

I'm looking at buying VR/VS starter motor for my 308 and was just wanting to know a little bit more about them before I stepped out and bought one.

Are they are straight bolt and wire up fit?

How do they relate in size and configuration to normal starter - ie, placement of solenoid, overall size, etc.

I have heard the term reduction geared - does this refer to all VR/VS starter motors or only certain ones?

What does reduction geared mean anyway?

Are they a BOSCH unit?

Is anyone using one, and how have they found them to be.

Thanks in advance for all the help,

Cheers,

Liam.

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#2 _J&S Racing_

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Posted 24 February 2006 - 08:19 PM

I have got one bolted to my 308.

#1 they are a bolt in fit but need 2 long bolts not 1 long and 1 short like std, they do wire up the same.

#2 they are smaller in size and the solonoid is closer to the block.

#3 not sure about the reduction gear ones, but i have what they call a hi torque.

#4 mine is a Bosch and i think they all are.

#5 i run a 10.1+ comp and it's not to bad at starting it up, it's a bit harder once engine is at running temp. otherwise trouble free.

I hope this helps.

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#3 _Jewboy_

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Posted 24 February 2006 - 11:21 PM

Yeah J&S is right the starters are a fair bit smaller and lighter. the solenoid is up higher about 2 o'clock position, but there is heaps of space between extractors and it spins the engine heaps faster than the old one, My comp is close to 10:1. The starter is actually from a V6 but with a V8 front housing (bolt holes are in different positions).

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#4 _J&S Racing_

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Posted 25 February 2006 - 10:37 AM

I did forget to mention and i'm not sure if this changes things but my engine block is from a VP commodore.

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#5 _MAWLER_

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Posted 27 February 2006 - 11:59 AM

O.k, thanks guys, seems so far 100% of ppl think they are o.k

So I have to make sure I get a V8 one so it will bolt straight up without having to fiddle like you have Jewboy.

Actually, now that you mention it J&S, I've heard em referred to as Hi Torque gear reduction starters so they must all be the same sort of thing. I suppose you just have to scrounge up another long bolt from somewhere, they don't come with them in the box I'm guessing.

Cheers,

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#6 _TORANASS_

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Posted 27 February 2006 - 01:06 PM

you can get the bolts at a gmh dealer..

1 question: are auto and manual vs v8 starters the same?

John

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#7 _J&S Racing_

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Posted 27 February 2006 - 04:16 PM

The gear ruduction ones are around the $500 mark, the STD replacement ones for the VS V8's are just a Hi-Torque Bosch unit much cheaper. The bolts certainly don't come with it but as said you can get them from GMH.
The starter motor for manual and Auto should be the same.

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#8 _Jewboy_

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Posted 27 February 2006 - 08:49 PM

The guys at the wreckers did the mods for me, it was $100 for the starter (looked brand new only the faintest trace of dirt on some small sections) and $50 for the brand new front housing. When i was looking gear reduction ones were over $300. I ended up buying a bolt from a bolt supplier but it's only a standard bolt doesn't have the knurling on it and a bit thinner. The other orig bolt fits but not quite good enough to start the threads when fitting, its fine when fitted second.

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#9 _MAWLER_

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Posted 28 February 2006 - 07:42 AM

O.k, so there is a difference then. Can we establish what the difference actually is, what gear reduction means? It would want to be good for the extra couple of hundred bucks you guys have suggested it might be.

Peaec,

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#10 _J&S Racing_

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Posted 28 February 2006 - 06:09 PM

It's been a while since i have played around with them but from memory they have gears to ruduce the load on the electric motor and battery, they use them on very high comp engines eg diesel motors.

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#11 _Jewboy_

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Posted 28 February 2006 - 08:56 PM

There is another gear in the gear reduction ones and the stator is placed lower down you can see a difference ( has a hump near the solenoid) The extra gear reduces the effort required to turn the motor with the same power just like your diff. 2.78 is harder to move from stationary while 4.11 moves heavier cars even easier.

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#12 _MAWLER_

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Posted 01 March 2006 - 08:08 AM

O.k, so they are not direct drive then like normal sm. I'm only running about 10.7 comp so its not like it is ridiculously high and the old starter seemed to be coping o.k, well obviously not seeing as its broken after only 2000 k's. Might not be necessary to step up to the gear reduction because it was starting beautifully, its just the solenoid that has packed it in. Maybe just a VS V8 Hi torque one like yours J&S is all I really need, and is cheaper also.

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#13 _J&S Racing_

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Posted 01 March 2006 - 03:33 PM

Liam, I think it would be our best choice as it will do the job and it's not to expensive, you do have about the same comp as i do.

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#14 _2wild4u_

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Posted 01 March 2006 - 10:24 PM

go and get the holden gear reduction starter, pretty sure part no. is BXH136 i got one on my 355 stroker with big compression, battery is in boot, standard starter fried instantly, fitted the gear reduction one and it fied straight away, i have made a heatshield for it also, havnt had a problem yet, highly recommend them

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#15 _MAWLER_

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Posted 02 March 2006 - 09:33 AM

O.k we have some developments. Pulled off the starter to have a look today and it IS a gear reduction one. It also has about a 2mm spacer that looks homemade which is there I suppose incase the teeth were too close. Messeged the previous and he said he bought it from Super Plus, I rang them and it is $339 for gear reduction starter to suit 308. Also checked with the auto elec and he reckons about $130 for a rebuild of the current starter.

So looks like I'm going to need to get a gear reduction starter then and I would prefer to buy a new one than have an old one rebuilt. I would also prefer to get a stock item like off the VS rather than an aftermarket type from Super Plus which is from who knows where.

That is awesome news 2wild4u, and the part no. is a great help too cos I know a bloke... Can you give a bit of info on your heat shield, because I was planning to use some of that heat proof stuff that looks like it was off a NASA ship because I'm sure heat soak is a problem.

Cheers,

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#16 _2wild4u_

Guests

Posted 04 March 2006 - 10:15 AM

the heatshield i put on mine is from a vz holden commodore starter motor, go to your local holden dealer and pick one up, it easily adapts to the starter and works a treat

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#17 _MAWLER_

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Posted 05 March 2006 - 02:32 PM

Sweet, I love easy fixes. I'll go down and pick one up.

Thanks for that.

Liam.

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#18 Lima31

Forum Fixture

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874 posts

Name:Lee
Location:Perth WA
Joined: 18-April 10

Posted 28 August 2017 - 06:37 PM

This is an awesome replacement for the stock starter, including bolts it is 3.7 kg versus 7.4 kg - nice weight save.

Downside is that according to Covs the bolts aren't supplied by GMH anymore and RSP don't stock them - they are getting hard to find.

Bosch product details here:

https://au.bosch-aut.../starter-bxh136

Starter BXH136
Product No. F 042 200 057
Code : BXH136

Replaces

GMC (GENERAL MOTORS CORP.) 92047110
HOLDEN 92047110
HOLDEN BXH126
HOLDEN F005M00012
HSV (HOLDEN SPECIAL VEHICLES) F005M00012

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#19 rexy

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Name:Rexy
Location:Melbourne
Car:Kia grand carnival!!!
Joined: 03-November 09

Posted 02 September 2017 - 06:41 PM

I have just replaced the old starter in the hatch with one of these. The original had been slowly loosing its grunt for a few years and a few recent hot starts had been nerve wracking.
The BXH 136 can be found quite cheaply new. I got mine off eBay. Started list price $197. Seller discount 10%. eBay voucher discount 20%. Free postage and hey presto it's $142 delivered to my door.

You do need new bolts. I was hopeful that two long bolts for the old style starter would be ok but no go. They are significantly different.

IMG_8634.JPG 359.81K 6 downloads

I did the wrecker ring around without much luck. Bought Holdents last pair of new ones for $40.
The bolts are apparently available at Bursons etc.

IMG_8629.JPG 289.59K 5 downloads

There is a big size difference and the solenoid is on top rather than the side. Keeps it further away from the pipes.

IMG_8629.JPG 289.59K 5 downloads

IMG_8630.JPG 458.79K 3 downloads

The solenoid position change may or may not cause some small issues. If you still have factory wiring it's probably no issue. I use an Alfa Romeo body length cable for my boot mounted battery. The cable has an angled end so needed some re routing to keep it off the pipes. No biggie. Also had to redo my earth cable from the starter mounting bolt to chassis (was on the short bolt).

Did have an issue though.
After I finished I went to start the car and ..... nothing. No click, no crank. Checked I hadn't left the solenoid wire off, checked the battery was reconnected and ...... nothing. Fark!
Got serious and got the test light out. Maybe with wrestling the wiring I had broken or dislodged something? Power to the starter? Check. Power to the solenoid on cranking? Check. Try to start again and nothing. Bugger, dead starter new out of the box. Can't believe my bad luck.
In frustration and hope I try a couple more times and leave it keyed on for a few loooong seconds and it suddenly comes to life. Starts uneventfully next few times including a hot start.

It cranks hard and the car fires straight away. Much improved. Well worth the $182 and hour of my time.

Attached Files

IMG_8673.PNG 43.05K 4 downloads

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#20 IMORAL

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Name:Paul
Location:As far away from WA as possible
Car:LX SS HATCH - IMORAL
Joined: 24-February 11

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Posted 02 September 2017 - 10:38 PM

I run one of them. Love it
Couldn't get bloody bolt though. None at Holden , repco or bursons up here
Ended up buying some arp ones from summit

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#21 Cook

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Location:Melbourne
Car:LX Hatch
Joined: 27-February 15

Posted 06 September 2017 - 04:13 PM

Great information guys. Noted the appropriate info for when I get around to it. Cheers Ron

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#22 rexy

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Name:Rexy
Location:Melbourne
Car:Kia grand carnival!!!
Joined: 03-November 09

Posted 24 October 2017 - 10:48 PM

It turns out my starter was a dud. It failed the next time I went to start about a week later.
The replacement turned up pretty quickly and has been fine.