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spool??? locker???


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#1 blown350

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Posted 26 February 2006 - 05:38 PM

might be a dumb question but whats the difference between a spool/mini spool and a locker??? from my understanding a spool is permanantly locked where as a locker only locks at load or something?????????

#2 racean69

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Posted 26 February 2006 - 06:31 PM

Yeah a spool physicaly joins your two axles together all the time.

Mini spool replaces your star/sun gears and a full spool replaces the whole the whole hemishere.

Were as a detriot locker locks on acceleration..... unless its a fancy air/electric type.

Have also been told that detriot type lockers can lock on sudden deceleration.

Anyone?

#3 LS1LX

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Posted 26 February 2006 - 06:52 PM

A true detroit locker should only lock under torque (accel) if there is no torque being applied (decel) it should unlock.

The problem normally arise when slowing down into a corner, if you dont hold steady speed and play with the rpm it can lock half way thru a corner which can steer you in the wrong direction.

Its a thing you need to adjust to and the problem normally lies with the person pushing the pedals.

#4 racean69

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Posted 26 February 2006 - 09:20 PM

LS1LX
Thanks for clearing that up....your explanation makes sense, thought what I was told sounded a bit strange.

cheers

#5 JBM

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Posted 27 February 2006 - 10:28 AM

Detroit lockers can also be adjusted so that they will lock up after a certain distance driven, so that they wont lock while approaching a corner.

The wheels turning at different speeds, ie inside wheel v outside wheel, when cornering winds up the locker until it fully locks.

So longer corners will have the diff locked before the apex.

James

#6 jap-xu1

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Posted 27 February 2006 - 10:35 AM

the thought of a diff chopping and changing like that scares the hell outta me.

#7 blown350

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Posted 27 February 2006 - 04:02 PM

yea they dont sound very safe! .... so would there be any difference between a 9 inch or a salisbury strength wise if they both had mini-spools?

#8 jap-xu1

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Posted 27 February 2006 - 04:11 PM

its axles that break with a locked diff.
i have no idea if you can get billet axles for salisbury diffs.

using a 9" is a no brainer. you never have to worry about broken rear ends again

#9 Dr Terry

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Posted 27 February 2006 - 08:45 PM

Hi jap-xu1.

That is not true. Most 9" axles are not that special, many late BW axles are better. & the diff itself is strong but still easy to break depending on HP & driving style.

In my old Monaro I broke so many 28 spline axles I lost count. 31 spline axles are better but these still twist & break.

If you go 35 spline billet, a good spool (not some cheap mini-spool) & a nodular housing, then they will take some serious punishment. Anything less can & will give you drama.

My point is NOTHING IS UNBREAKABLE.

Dr Terry.

#10 jap-xu1

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Posted 27 February 2006 - 09:23 PM

yeah sorry i meant,with aftermarket support,they will be stronger.

the aftermarket support is very very good with the 9".

#11 Bomber Watson

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Posted 27 February 2006 - 09:27 PM

ditto that. pick up a parts peddler. every fith page or so is an ad for tricked up 9" components...some good some not so....

#12 LS1LX

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Posted 28 February 2006 - 06:35 AM

Hi jap-xu1.

That is not true. Most 9" axles are not that special, many late BW axles are better. & the diff itself is strong but still easy to break depending on HP & driving style.

In my old Monaro I broke so many 28 spline axles I lost count. 31 spline axles are better but these still twist & break.

If you go 35 spline billet, a good spool (not some cheap mini-spool) & a nodular housing, then they will take some serious punishment. Anything less can & will give you drama.

My point is NOTHING IS UNBREAKABLE.

Dr Terry.

Nobody builds a car and uses resplined axles these days though, so you buy new axles and seeing as 28/31 cost the same, there should be no reason today people breaking 9" axles on the street.

#13 Dr Terry

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Posted 28 February 2006 - 08:31 AM

Hi LSILX.

I've never used resplined axles in my cars, I was referring to original Falcon GT & GT-HO 28 & 31 spline factory axles.

Just because an axle is new doesn't mean it's unbreakable. I now import & sell Mark Williams billet axles in anything up to 40 spline. The M/W axles are probably the best there is, but there is a lot of cheap crappy 'new' axles on the market that aren't any better than shortened & resplined 2nd hand factory Ford axles.

Dr Terry.

#14 MAWLER

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Posted 28 February 2006 - 09:39 AM

O.k so talking about splines then. I currently have 28's with my mini-spool and am going to upgrade them when I get my diff cut. Originally I was just going to go to 31 spline but I have been told that it is the same cost and effort to go to 33 as 31 spline, is this true? How about 35, what needs to happen to be able to use 35 spline axles?

Just out of interest Dr Terry, how much does it cost nowadays for a reasonable billet axle?

Cheers,

#15 2wild4u

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Posted 01 March 2006 - 10:28 PM

about $600 a pair for a decent set

#16 LS1LX

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Posted 02 March 2006 - 06:35 AM

Hi LSILX.

I've never used resplined axles in my cars, I was referring to original Falcon GT & GT-HO 28 & 31 spline factory axles.

Just because an axle is new doesn't mean it's unbreakable. I now import & sell Mark Williams billet axles in anything up to 40 spline. The M/W axles are probably the best there is, but there is a lot of cheap crappy 'new' axles on the market that aren't any better than shortened & resplined 2nd hand factory Ford axles.

Dr Terry.

Your not the "Terry" from Terry's Diffs are you?
I know he is the MW distributor in Sydney.

#17 LS1LX

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Posted 02 March 2006 - 06:38 AM

O.k so talking about splines then. I currently have 28's with my mini-spool and am going to upgrade them when I get my diff cut. Originally I was just going to go to 31 spline but I have been told that it is the same cost and effort to go to 33 as 31 spline, is this true? How about 35, what needs to happen to be able to use 35 spline axles?

Just out of interest Dr Terry, how much does it cost nowadays for a reasonable billet axle?

Cheers,

Be careful, I no 28 and 31 you can get away with the same centre housing, with some of the large spline counts you need an aftermarket centre section to accomodate the larger bearings used. The centre will end up costing you more then 28/31.

#18 Dr Terry

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Posted 02 March 2006 - 09:32 AM

Hi Guys.

With axles you get what you pay for. It also depends on your definition of 'reasonable' & 'decent'.

With Mark Williams the cost of the bare axles is the same, regards of whether they are 28, 31 or 35 spline. The price varies because of freight from the USA, obviously a long pair of 35 spline axles will be heavier & therefore cost more to freight than a short pair of 28 spline. Trust me, these freight guys charge by the ounce. A typical pair of axles is around $850 to $900 a pair, with duty, freight & GST paid. This is where some people cheat a bit, they don't take these into account or they don't pay for them in the 1st place.

That's for is for the axles, then you have to add wheel studs & with Mark Williams they only come in 1/2" UNF screw-in style, so if you're running skinny 7/16" Holden studs you will also have to allow for wheel nuts & re-drilling the drums.

With wheel bearings it depends what you're using now, but the 28 & 31 spline axles can be made to take, normal Ford bearings, HK/HT/HG/LC/LJ bearings or the modern tapered type. When you go to 35 spilne you have to use a special bearing with a large ID & a standard OD so you can keep your existing brakes & axle housing. These bearings are not cheap.

With your diff centre, the same applies, the 28 & 31 spline can all suit open centres, LSD centres, Detroit Lockers, mini-spools or full spools. Obviously if you're upgrading from 28 to 31 spline allow for the upgrade to your centre as well. The 35 spline axles will only suit Detroit Lockers or spools so they're getting a bit silly, cost-wise, for a street car set-up.

When I ran my old Monaro, I found the best set-up & the cheapest to maintain was a pair of 31 spline axles & an LSD centre with the clutches shimmed up. This combination was unbreakable in a 3400 lb (1550 kg) car doing 10.2 secs & was still very streetable. I tried a spool for 2 meetings, the car went no quicker, felt the same on the track, but was an obsolute pig to drive in the pits & everywhere else for that matter.

Dr Terry.

#19 MAWLER

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Posted 02 March 2006 - 10:14 AM

O.k cool, thanks Dr. Terry, helps me to know a bit whats going on. I will certainly be ruling out the step up to 35 spline, the cost is just too prohibitive, not to mention the fact that it is overkill anyway.

Also, just checking that I'm right in thinking that the centre doesn't have to be replaced outright, just adjusted to take the extra splines?

I'm only going to be running low 12's high 11's so the extra precaution of billet axles is not worth the extra $1000 of stuffing around.

Thanks for the valuable info.

Liam.

#20 Dr Terry

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Posted 02 March 2006 - 11:29 AM

Hi Guys.

LS1LX said

"Your not the "Terry" from Terry's Diffs are you?
I know he is the MW distributor in Sydney. "

Well yes & no. "Terry's Diffs & Chassis" at Lansvale ceased to operate as of about 3 years ago. It was a partnership between 2 guys, both called Terry.

One of those Terrys has, for the last 3 years run Terry's Race Components from my workshop in Auburn. To totally confuse the issue my name is also Terry (Terry Bebbington).

We also go under the name of Mark Williams Australia.

Dr Terry.

#21 jap-xu1

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Posted 02 March 2006 - 03:10 PM

thats terrific! :rockon:

#22 LS1LX

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Posted 02 March 2006 - 06:53 PM

Hi Guys.

LS1LX said

"Your not the "Terry" from Terry's Diffs are you?
I know he is the MW distributor in Sydney. "

Well yes & no. "Terry's Diffs & Chassis" at Lansvale ceased to operate as of about 3 years ago. It was a partnership between 2 guys, both called Terry.

One of those Terrys has, for the last 3 years run Terry's Race Components from my workshop in Auburn. To totally confuse the issue my name is also Terry (Terry Bebbington).

We also go under the name of Mark Williams Australia.

Dr Terry.

So your Terry from Bebco ?

I got my axles off Terry S a few months back. The 3 Terry's.

You've got the neat LX hatchback that I asked you to sell me on the few occassions I was there, what a friggin small world.




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