582 replies to this topic

[REDA9X]

Since this topic never seems to go away and people continued to debate in the classifieds section, I have decided to open this thread. This is not an excuse for people to bag out other peoples cars or choices so if you have nothing constructive to add, then don't bother!

[MRLXSS]

Is this a debate on what is better and should be worth more?

If i had to have one in my shed, that i would enjoy... It would be an L34... Just because it was a bit more of an Animal... And i love the L34 paint job... subtle but very sexy!

Edited by MRLXSS, 02 April 2009 - 09:21 AM.

[REDA9X]

yeah you can add that, thats fine, I always liked the look of the L34 personally too. As for worth more? Well the L34 is rarer than the A9X sedan, and the cars were raced so......

[unclefestal34s]

Micheal are very easy way would be a simple shootout at the track with my stock L34 and your stock A9X,sounds good a redcar vs redcar..basically a 2009 version..now this might seem like a bit of a challenge but to make it interesting we take bets and raise some money for a charity as my niece does little work with the starlight foundation at the children's hospital at westmead which incidentally saved her life....basically a bit of fun and we could show of the cars to our forum members and what these brilliant cars are capable of doing in the year 2009...we could settle some of these great debates in reality as opposed to some of the theories and so on...would be very easy to arrange what do you think...the old saying the flag drops the bullshit..and please don't take it personal as i'm a genuine shit stirrer to but my offer is real...hey keep smiling..

[MRLXSS]

^^ That would be absolutely fantastic! ^^

[GML-31]

I was thinking.. would't it be funny if nobody posted about it anymore...lol

[Litre8]

^^^ that may address one aspect, which is quicker around a circuit in stock configuration.

My guess would be that in a straight line the L34 would pull away (depending on the installed diff ratio) but come the corners (and some repeated heavy braking) then the A9x would be climbing over the back of the L34.

[MRLXSS]

Maybe we contact Australian Muscle Car magazine, or Wheels or something. And do a full on proper write up on it? Get a racer from the era to come race them... (Pity brocky aint with us anymore)

[Litre8]

Maybe at pre-race Bathurst like a few years ago when they had Torana vs race Commodore vs SS Commodore though this would require 3 high calibre drivers.

[GML-31]

best of luck finding a stock car... most would have better shocks tyres bushes and rebuilt motors since then

[meanmachine72]

good idea festa!!!and the sick kids would benefit too

i for one would be there....Bring it on!!!

[REDA9X]

This argument seems to come up on a regulate basis, so lets look at the facts
Many people believe the L34 was a better car than the A9X and the common argument is that the L34 was faster. In some cases, some people have even claimed the stock L34 was putting out 380hp, strange when race teams were lucky to squeeze 350hp out of them in full race mode.

The fact is Holden had a policy of choking the cars at the time after the supercar scare. When the 34 was released most people were very disappointed with their performance off the showroom floor. Holden claimed the car was built for endurance, not performance, while that was correct, the engine basics were all there, all you had to do was let it breath and the thing went like a rocket. The standard exhaust for example was the H&M headers broken in 2 and the second part went into one single 2� pipe. After reaching the mufflers, the pipes went back down to the standard 1 5/8 tailpipes. On the intake end, the engine had to suck air through a 1 � hole in the aircleaner. The fact is an engine thrives on getting air and fuel and being able to extract that exhaust, the intake and exhaust was no better than a stock SLR5000.
When tested at the time , most motoring journalists were shocked by the cars performance and in one magazine an SLR5000 and L34 were compared to each other on the drag strip and the SLR5000 was actually found to be faster. Speaking to people who bought SLR5000�s and L34�s from new they found the same issue when the cars were taken to the local Castlereagh drag strip. Most people agreed at the time the SLR5000 was faster due to the rolling diameter of the tyres, 13� rims to 14� rims. Most owners of L34�s then took the cars home, had the exhaust changed, timing done and a decent aircleaner fitted. When they returned to the track the cars went much better, this is why most people remember L34�s as rocket ships because they have now been modified, and most have been over the years. The same external mods to an SLR5000 would not achieve the same result as the internal components , mainly the larger head valves were not there. All the other mods in an L34 engine from the factory were as they stated, for durability.

The L34 also had the option for the High Output pack to be fitted, again this was mainly durability, though it did have a wilder cam and better breathing aircleaner as well. The stock L34 cam was the same as a standard 253. The fact is the HO kit was never a factory fitted item, it was dealer fitted and many dealers were fitting them to other vehicles. In 1978, Holden released a bulletin to all its dealers stating the fitment of HO kits was to cease as it was against ADR�s of the day.

The A9X was released to cure all the problems the L34,( just like the L34 was to cure the SLR5000 in racing situations) had, mainly with driveline. There was no need to put all the L34 components into the engine, they had already been homologated. Holden only needed to add the bits that needed fixing. An L34 was basically an SLR5000 with HQ brakes, some good engine bits and flares to accommodate the 14� wheels. With the A9X, they modified the floor to take the larger Salisbury diff with disc brakes from the upcoming HZ range. A dealer fitted option was also the T10 gearbox. Other mods were changes to the suspension which made the car handle better and some small changes for the engine. The most noticeable was the bonnet scoop which allowed for a hole to accommodate the variety of different carburettors available. The engine driven fan was removed and replaced with an electric fan as the L34 was prone to throw fanbelts and the fan robbed the engine of power. The road going A9X got a different camshaft to the SLR5000 and an upgraded crankshaft from the L34 as the L34 crank was prone to failure. The A9X did suffer from ADR27A which made the engines run less smoothly than a pre ADR27A engine, however the lack of fan and cam did make up for this slightly. The main purpose of the ADR27A mods was to make the engine more efficient and better on fuel, but once the engines were up to temp they were not that much worse off performance wise.
When it came to race A9X�s, yes a special batch of shells were made up, however at least 2 I know of used road going hatches.
The A9X race cars did not use L34 engines as most people seem to think. Remember the L34 ran a fan for starters. Most A9X race cars had new blocks from the factory and built them to the specs allowed within the homologation process, this means yes they used plenty of L34 componentry, but essentially were not an L34 engine as such.
Going back to the road cars, if you bought a brand new bog stock L34 and a brand new bog stock A9X and ran them against each other around a track, it would be a race between whether the basically stock A9X engine without the benefit of the L34�s baffled sump would blow up before the L34 ran out of brakes or blew up the diff, not a race to see which was faster. If the A9X did not make improvements over the L34 and the L34 handled better as some would have you believe, why did Holden bother to upgrade to the A9X in the first place?

It�s a fact less L34�s were made than A9X sedans, 263 vs. 305, and that the L34 was built to race. Holden didn�t produce special shells for the L34 to race, you went to the dealer, you bought an L34, modified it to race and off you went. This makes genuine untouched examples of the L34 very rare indeed today.

The facts are simple, and this is in no way a put down of the L34 as some would have you believe, it�s unemotional facts rather than wives tales and blurred memories, or simple putting down of one car because someone owns the other. You also have to remember to compare apples with apples, you can�t compare a modified (in ANY WAY) A9X against an L34 or visa versa. At the end of the day, both of these cars served their purpose in the homologation process and both have their good and bad points, people should learn to appreciate them for what they are.


the idea of the race sounds good, however, neither car is exactly the way it left the factory.

[76lxhatch]

This is very entertaining, loving it!

The track shootout would be pretty cool if those with examples of these fine cars were interested. A printout of this thread could be taken along on the day to make sure everything is kosher!

[Swarbs]

These dealer fitted high output packs -- are they the "Track packs" you hear about?
Or are we talking something else again?

[MRLXSS]

Natural progression...
Top of the range LH - L34
Top of the Range LX - A9X
Top of the range UC - SLE
They all handle better than the previous model, but are slower! LOL

[REDA9X]

I'd do it, the old girl needs a run, I've done the quarter mile thing with AMC already, 15.541 pass was my best, but I'm not into that sort of thing so I didn't push the car at all. My old girl also has 186000km on the clock original engine...

the HO pack is the track pack some people refer to yes, oil cooler, cam proper roller rockers, aircleaner.... $1500 new in 1974.

[REDA9X]

What carb did a Stock

L34 ? Rochestor 780 Holley as part of the HO kit


A9X ? Rochestor

Race

L34 ? 780 Holley or side draught webers, whatever you wanted to fit under the bonnet


A9X ? whatever fitted again, however the hole in the bionnet allowed twin downdraught 48mm IDF Webers to be the favourite, depending on the track

Red what were the exhaust upgrades after the HM headers did they just go from 1 5/8 to 2 or 2.5 or what? So just to get this clear in my head after the Headers it went into one single 2 inch pipe and then split into two 1 5/8 pipes? Then it was modified to what? after the headers did it have a twin 1 5/8 pipes with a crossover or something? what sort of increase in power would that have brought? Or a different size?

Darren

The exhaust after the headers was the same on the L34, SLR5000 and A9X, with slight changes to suit the floor. Standard on L34 whas the H&M headers, the bottom half was like a big 'V' collector that went into a single 2" pipe on both sides of the engine all the way to the mufflers. Out of the mufflers it was 2x 1 5/8" pipe to the rear of the car, so effectively causing a bottle neck. It's a twin system all the way. The race cars just fitted the proper bottom half of the headers which continued as four pipes and then into a large collector and dump pipe depending on the team design. I'm not sure of exact figures, it would differ depending on what mods you did be it for the road or race. A decent exhaust and intake however can make a big difference as we all know. For anyone with a stock engine, try turning the aircleaner lid upside down and see what a difference that makes.