32 replies to this topic

[fuzzypumper]

Hi all,

Went to Repco the other day to get a new temp sensor for the SLR and the Tridon catalogue doesnt list one for Toranas any more.
So the salesman looks up the Champion catalogue because he said they do alot of the older stuff.
The Champion catalogue lists a Torana one part no# CTS-123 which is the big bore type like the factory original but when I got it home
installed it it never made the gauge move.
I tested it and found its OHM range was exactly the same as a Commodore one and at boiling point only got to 81ohms.

Called Autobarn and they confirmed that their BOSCH, VDO, ACA and TRIDON catalogues also dont list Torana temp sensors anymore either and their system showed no stock. However the old Tridon number was suppose to be TTS033 for the Torana.

Anyone know somewhere else I can try get one?
I hope the OIL senders dont disappear too.

[TerrA LX]

Rare spares?

[fuzzypumper]

I didnt get a chance to call them but just had a look at the online catalogue but they only have the UC torana one #9946818 which is the same as the Commodore ones , again. LX one is #9932443.

[fuzzypumper]

vdo 320 003, lh/x, you may also need the adaptor 320 053, screw in piece.
Do check whatever you get is the same length
Its the same sensor for hj-hz so other manufacturers catalogues may show these

UC, early comm is 320 032

this info is off a copy of the vdo catalogue I have, but their website atm wont give any downloads:http://au.vdo.com/home

Ring them and ask where they are being sold

the lh/x sensor should be at 75-10 Ohms Cold/Hot, boiling pt probably around 40 Ohm.

I also would have thought its the same as HJ -HZ but according to Rarespares the HZ one is like the UC -commodore one too.

While Im aware the sensors range is supposed to be 70-10ohms (10ohms sends needle to full hot red line) why would the boiling point
be 40ohms? By my calc a 40ohm load=100degC would only put the needle at about 1/3rd on the scale with a proper working regulator.
So why isnt the boiling point closer to 10ohms to show full scale deflection?

[76lxhatch]

I bought one from Rares around 12 months ago (I think?) that suited Torana, same as HX GTS I believe. Remember that the scale is not linear, I think you'll find 40 ohms is well over halfway up the gauge.

[fuzzypumper]

I bought one from Rares around 12 months ago (I think?) that suited Torana, same as HX GTS I believe. Remember that the scale is not linear, I think you'll find 40 ohms is well over halfway up the gauge.

I searched the Rarespares HJ-HZ section again and found they have the one youre reffering to as a "SENDER TEMPERATURE VARIOUS HOLDEN WITH GAUGE " #7438478, While the part number doesnt match the torana ones I'm suspicious, its looks exactly like the Champion branded sensor even with the replacement plastic insulator. mmmmmm?

As far as the scale being more log than linear, It been discussed many a time, but when I place loads of 73, 52, 32, 21 and 10ohms which I calculated would correspond to Zero, 1/4, 1/2, 3/4 and Full on the gauges, it showed exactly that on the Fuel & Oil gauges and only a slight
difference lower on the temp. I have a HX Temp & Fuel guage which correponded in the same way too.

I found another old sensor in the shed which at boil was 46ohms as opposed to 85ohms(commodore type) but still only sent temp guage
to nearly 1/4 scale on both my dashes and just to make sure I placed 10ohms on it and gauge goes full scale( no probs).

[fuzzypumper]

Thanks Torbirdie, a few good points.

Still the part numbers are mixed:
My broken one is a old VDO with the following info stamped on it: date 3/77, 50-120c 6-24v, #9932443 which is the same number in the Torana LX manual.
The UC catalogue has #9946818(old) and 92003861(new)
The HZ catalogue has #92003862

Rarespares confuses the situation even more with ovelapping info in the following listings:
HQ-WB SENDER TEMPERATURE VARIOUS HOLDEN WITH GAUGE #7438478(this one suspiciociusly like the Champion CTS-123),
SENDER UNIT TEMPERATURE HX-WB,VP-VT COMM TO GAUGE #92063571,
SENDER UNIT TEMP HZ WB UC TORANA VB-VH COMMODORE #9946818.( same as UC catalogue listing)

Anyway will give VDO call Monday or get the autobarn folk to do it.

Thanks

[76lxhatch]

I don't buy things like this from the online catalogue due to the confusing info, ring them up and talk to someone who knows, it seems like they have more specific/detailed information at hand when you do.

[Toranavista]

Assuming you have the correct brass adapter, the VDO replacement is 320 003 for LH/LX v8. A blue insuator unit with a resistance range 73 to 13 ohms. I believe the HZ - Commodore one is different. The sensors use to be available form Repco. Perhaps check if Rares don't have them.

[TerrA LX]

^ Thats correct, blue ring for LH/LX and black for UC/Commy.

[fuzzypumper]

I passed by wreckers today and only found one blue ring VDO sensor dated 10/88. It tested correctly with
60deg=70ohm to 100deg=21ohm.

I still have Mr Autobarn chasing up some new ones tomorow.

The other unknown VDO sensor I have has a White ring and its range seems to be 160 to 46ohms@100deg. Dont know what its off.

Thanks for your help all.

Edited by fuzzypumper, 17 May 2009 - 09:38 PM.

[fuzzypumper]

Mr Autobarn called and said he had a VDO sensor that could do the trick but turned out to be the wrong one. He was very helpfull and tried, but no cigar.

My next stop was gonna be Rarespares but then I remembered Ringwood speedos down the road. They aparently are the only
authorized VDO agent in Melbourne, so I'm told and specialize in other brands like Smiths etc... lots of old school stuff too.
He had the proper blue ring VDO sensor in stock #320 003 . He said to me they are obsolete now and not being manufactured any more
so I got 2 one them at $15ea.

Happy chappy

Edited by fuzzypumper, 18 May 2009 - 12:54 PM.

[Dr Terry]

Hi Guys.

We almost need a sticky for this topic, it comes up so often.

Firstly, the anomaly with the WB is that the WB Statesman uses the same senders as Commodore & UC, whereas the WB commercials use the same senders as HJ/HX/HZ/LH/LX etc. Their dash & instruments are totally different in appearance & electrically.

The reason that there are different part numbers within the HJ/HX/HZ/LHLX range is because of the change in running temperature as mentioned by torbirdie. When the ADR27A engines were released the gauges read higher (obviously) so they introduced slightly different sensors to suit. These will interchange, but the reading will vary slightly.

Using the coloured rings as a method of ID doesn't work very well. The manufacturer of the original senders from the factory was Flexdrive. Most replacements are now made by VDO. Their colour-coding systems are different & just because two senders have the same coloured ring doesn't make them the same. The corollary to that is that the common blue one & the red one are same electrically.

The VDO temp sender to suit LH/LX/HJ/HX/HZ is now obsolete, but I stock a replacement which is a direct fit except that it has a different terminal. It has a normal 1/4" spade instead of a button but works perfectly.

Dr Terry.

[fuzzypumper]

Hi Guys.

We almost need a sticky for this topic, it comes up so often.

Firstly, the anomaly with the WB is that the WB Statesman uses the same senders as Commodore & UC, whereas the WB commercials use the same senders as HJ/HX/HZ/LH/LX etc. Their dash & instruments are totally different in appearance & electrically.

The reason that there are different part numbers within the HJ/HX/HZ/LHLX range is because of the change in running temperature as mentioned by torbirdie. When the ADR27A engines were released the gauges read higher (obviously) so they introduced slightly different sensors to suit. These will interchange, but the reading will vary slightly.

Using the coloured rings as a method of ID doesn't work very well. The manufacturer of the original senders from the factory was Flexdrive. Most replacements are now made by VDO. Their colour-coding systems are different & just because two senders have the same coloured ring doesn't make them the same. The corollary to that is that the common blue one & the red one are same electrically.

The VDO temp sender to suit LH/LX/HJ/HX/HZ is now obsolete, but I stock a replacement which is a direct fit except that it has a different terminal. It has a normal 1/4" spade instead of a button but works perfectly.

Dr Terry.

Doesnt having VDO sensors for VDO gauges make sense?
I have on old but broken VDO sensor that has a white ring and dated 3/77 but also has the LX torana part number stamped on it #9932443.
Are you saying that this sensor wasnt factory or sold over the spare parts counter at you GMH dealer?

I thought the flexidrive gauges and sensors where in UCs, WB statemans and Commodore only ?
And they gauges ran on a 3 terminal 10volt electronic regulator, thus running higher ohms range sensors to reduce current load and increase accuracy?

I also found that the new VDO #320003 dark blue ring sensor and an unknown branded, old & slightly shorter red ring sensor I have are in fact indentically eletrically the same.
I also have an VDO, used and with a light blue ring sensor too which gave reading only a couple of ohms lower that the #320003 but coulnt tell if it was just worn out electically or the blue ring was faded and was actually the same sensor.

Anyway I have tabled and graphed the Temp Vs Ohms for the 7 sensors I have here, Torana & commodore types and taken photos and some physical measurements.
I wouldnt mind seeing what you replacement sensor looks like Dr Terry?

Cheers

Edited by fuzzypumper, 19 May 2009 - 01:08 PM.

[fuzzypumper]

I was lucky and found 2 new VDO ones from a Speedo place for my cars like the one thats on ebay at the moment
and for a similar price.

You could try the ones rare spares sells. The web site doesnt give too much info and I found it conflicting)
But I would hope they sell the correct units. However they probably arent VDO.

I was also told be the man at the Speedo place that you can use the same sensor thats on 60s and Early 70s falcons.
Its a slightly shorter, FLexdrive brand with screw terminal connector. Its in the same ohm range as used by
thermal 5v gauges(as used by Torana/Kingswood) and is only 2 ohms different at boiling compared to the VDO.

[ls2lxhatch]

I had the exactly the same problem with the CTS123 not moving the gauge. I checked it with the multimeter and it was not even close. I suspect it is the equivalent of the 320.002 HK, HT, HG, HQ. The application guide for the CTS123 lists both HQ and LX so one of them must be wrong.

I went back to the VDO catalogue to check out what else used the 320.003 and found the 68-82 Ford Escort was listed. The Champion part for the Ford Escort is CTS122. It looks about right on the multimeter. I have not been able able to test it in the engine yet. It is similar to the original small VDO sender but instead of the button has a thread and nut.

Edited by ls2lxhatch, 03 October 2009 - 01:47 AM.

[rodomo]

I have found that one of the problems trying to source items like this is quite often the lack of experience of the blonk behind the counter.

You have to educate them as you go.

[fuzzypumper]

Andy, I dont know if the 320.002 is an equivalent for the older Holdens or not, but I do know from what the VDO specialist told me was that
the 320.002 isnt likely to discontinued as its primary used and is matched to VDO's aftermarket, off the shelf Temp gauges.
Anyway the CTS122 might be the go as well.

Rod, I suppose the guys behind the counter are only as educated as the books given to them by the component suppliers,
But we always know better, dont we

I had time so I graphed the various sensors I had in my possesion.


Yes I had too much time, thats why a need a job.

Edited by fuzzypumper, 03 October 2009 - 03:28 AM.

[TerrA LX]

I have found that one of the problems trying to source items like this is quite often the lack of experience of the blonk behind the counter.

You have to educate them as you go.

This is a growing problem, but you can't blame them, there must be hundreds and millions of parts listed over the years and factor in the updated ones, the superseded ones and the obsolete.

Thank you for the extra effort fuzzypumper, nice work.

So would it be safe to say we need to look for a sender that runs from at least 300 - 400 ohms to get the best reading?

Edited by TerrA LX, 03 October 2009 - 03:24 PM.

[fuzzypumper]

No,
The ones you need for the LH LX Torana are the VDO 320.003. An equavalent one that should work is Ford one as I also found
it to be around the same range.
Unfortunately I found none of the cataloges stated any specs, like ohms ranges for the sensors, They simply go by part number.

I just did the graph so I could figure out which ones I had, as many of used ones didnt have parts numbers stamped or brand.
The lines at the bottom represent the Torana LH LX/kingswood HJ-HZ ones.

A quick test to see if you have the right sensor( for LH LX) is to test the sensor with your multimeter at room temperature
and it should read in the range of 180-250ohms. This is by no means a definative test as room temperature isnt anywhere near
operating temp range, but generally I found all the Torana ones, Whether they where VDO or flexdrive, displayed that starting resistance.

The VDO 320.002 used on the VDO after market Temp gauge had a room temp, starting resistanse of around 500-600ohms
and Commodore type usually are usually around 750-1000ohms at room temp.

At least this is one way of testing whether the man behind the counter possibly gave you the wrong one before you
walk out the store.

Edited by fuzzypumper, 04 October 2009 - 12:49 AM.