29 replies to this topic

[fuzzypumper]

Hi All,

Ive obtained a used(but newer) 85amp alternator possibly from a VN or newer, to swap out with older original type one the car
but because its newer it has connectors like on EFI engines.
How do I wire it?
I have been told the "L" pin should wired to your dash warning lamp and the "S" pin should be wired directly to 12v via a fuse.
Can anyone tell me if thats correct?
If so what size fuse should use and rather than stringing another wire all the way back to the battery can I just connect it to
the charging post instead?

Edited by fuzzypumper, 17 June 2009 - 05:54 PM.

[76lxhatch]

Use the 12V charge wire from the original alternator

[TerrA LX]

L will be the origional small terminal wire and a new small wire to the 12v+ battery for the S.

[fuzzypumper]

Thanks guys.

V8hatch. the diagram is what I needed.

Edited by fuzzypumper, 17 June 2009 - 10:42 PM.

[davelh]

i reckon i scanned that picture, amazing how things hang around.

back on track, go and by the sealed plug thaty clips on to the terminals for the sense and warning light.
It will ensure that your wiring wont corrode or pop off.

Dave

[fuzzypumper]

Thanks, I already had a few of those EFI connectors for this exact purpose as well one for the EFI temp sensor for another project ( electronic thermo fan controler).
I did have to re terminate new wires to the plug as the the old wiring was brittle from engine heat, but all is good

Edited by fuzzypumper, 18 June 2009 - 11:28 PM.

[fuzzypumper]

So, I have installed the new VN alternator and as with most jobs it took longer than expected with some fiddly extra work required so I�ll finalize the thread with the info.

1.When I first physically mounted the alternator I discovered the main pivot mounting, where the long bolt goes, wasn�t cast as wide as the old unit so I had to use washers to make up the gap (see picture below).


2. I found the other opposite mounting hole on the adjuster end wasn�t threaded. The hole was larger the old alternators 7/16� bolt so I tapped a new 3/8� thread and found a new bolt to suite. However the new 3/8� bolt was a tight fit on the slider but still worked.

3. The new alternators charging post was 8mm so I had to find and new nut for that.
Also had to re terminate the charging wire with an 8mm loop connecter as the original one was way smaller.

4. I found due to position the alternator sat, the regulators connector fowled onto the splash panel when final fan belt tension was applied. But I was able to bend the panel away by hand giving an acceptable amount of clearance again.(see picture below)


5. Had to run new wire directly to battery for the regulators �S�=sence terminal.
I didn�t fuse this wire as the diagram showed a direct connection.

Started car and tested a rock steady 14.4volts at battery, even at idle. The sense wire must be working. Its going to be unusual driving around with volt gauge stuck in one position(high) after 25 years of seeing them go up and down.
Another advantage of this regulator is that the dash illumination won�t dim down at idle due to the steady 14.4volts.

I also realised engine noise was quieter. Seems the old alternator had developed a noisy bearing too. Worked out well in the end.

Thanks for the help.

[TerrA LX]

^ It is great to hear from peoples personal experiences.

FYI if positioning of things on the back of the Alt are slightly fouling on something it is possible to open it up and rotate the rear cover.

[Marks LXTorana]

Hoping to revive this thread as I have just removed the EFI and loom from my LX  and going back to carby. It has a rebuilt 304 and VN alternator etc. and I am now rewiring the engine bay from scratch. Using the Bosch wiring diagram above, does the SLR dash cluster AMP gauge simply take the place of the warning light?

I noticed before I pulled the car apart that the SLR AMP gauge (or is it a voltage gauge?) always remained at zero until the first rev of the engine over 2000rpm. Lights were also dimmer, suggesting the alternator would not start charging until after the first rev of the engine. After it kicked in it would charge at a steady rate until I stopped the engine.

[Dr Terry]

The gauge in the SL/R instrument cluster is a voltmeter & simply works off the 12V supply, when the ignition is switched on.

 

The alternator light is fitted to all Toranas, regardless of whether they got the extra instrumentation or not.

 

The alternator light is an essential part of the excitation circuit of the alternator. It sounds to me like this might be part of your problem. If the globe is wired incorrectly or if its wattage is too high or too low, the alternator's excitation won't work correctly & you will have to give the engine a rev after start-uo to get the alternator charging.

 

Dr Terry

[Marks LXTorana]

Perfect Dr Terry, exactly what I thought but was hoping for someone to confirm for me. To make it easy to reply I'll number my questions:

1) So is the charge light (located at the bottom of the right hand cluster set) connected via the brown wire located on the "L" pin in the harness connector?

2) This brown wire then makes a direct line to the alternator in the LX wiring diagram although I will need to go via the ignition to turn on/off. I assume a relay is needed which is powered by ignition on position?

2) There is a lot of emphasis on the exciter bulb being no more than 2 watts. Is the stock cluster bulb suitable?

3) Based on what you are saying the voltage gauge just uses a main 12v pink feed wire straight from the fuse panel via the "E" pin in the harness connector?

 

Thanks heaps for your help!

Mark.

[Dr Terry]

Perfect Dr Terry, exactly what I thought but was hoping for someone to confirm for me. To make it easy to reply I'll number my questions:
1) So is the charge light (located at the bottom of the right hand cluster set) connected via the brown wire located on the "L" pin in the harness connector?
2) This brown wire then makes a direct line to the alternator in the LX wiring diagram although I will need to go via the ignition to turn on/off. I assume a relay is needed which is powered by ignition on position?
2) There is a lot of emphasis on the exciter bulb being no more than 2 watts. Is the stock cluster bulb suitable?
3) Based on what you are saying the voltage gauge just uses a main 12v pink feed wire straight from the fuse panel via the "E" pin in the harness connector?

Thanks heaps for your help!
Mark.

Yes, terminals E & L are as you describe, but I don't follow your comment regards going "via a relay".

I would just run the standard set-up. The only addition to standard wiring would be the 12V sensing wire at the second pin on the voltage reg. Only VN onwards alternators have this extra wire.

Also, the standard Torana ALT globe is 6W, so it's probably a good idea to put a lesser wattage globe in there.

Dr Terry

[axistr]

Mark, if you have to rev it to get the alternator to start charging your alternator brushes are about buggered. On the bosh 85 amp alternator  pictures shown above are  simple to change. The regulator assembly combines the brushes, you only need to remove the two small screws and slip the regulator assembly out the back and then slip the new regulator in. Takes less than five minutes. New units are available from Repco for around $38.00 I replaced mine recently didn't even need to remove the alternator from the car to replace the regulator/brushes. 

[Marks LXTorana]

Mark, if you have to rev it to get the alternator to start charging your alternator brushes are about buggered. On the bosh 85 amp alternator  pictures shown above are  simple to change. The regulator assembly combines the brushes, you only need to remove the two small screws and slip the regulator assembly out the back and then slip the new regulator in. Takes less than five minutes. New units are available from Repco for around $38.00 I replaced mine recently didn't even need to remove the alternator from the car to replace the regulator/brushes. 

Yes I think part of the problem was the lack of the exciter wire which means the alternator needs a rev to get going. It all made sense after reading how it works although i agree replacing the brushes is an easy and appropriate job for security.

[Marks LXTorana]

Yes, terminals E & L are as you describe, but I don't follow your comment regards going "via a relay". - So is the warning light wire a switchable earth? In other words it only earths the lamp if the alternator is not charging?


Also, the standard Torana ALT globe is 6W, so it's probably a good idea to put a lesser wattage globe in there. - Awesome, thanks!

Dr Terry

[ben23]

Definitely fuse your sense wire if you have run it all the way back to the battery positive. The commodores that they were fitted to had a small fusible link at the battery terminal supplying the sense wire to the alt. Fit something between a 5-10A fuse at the battery to protect that feed. Also I hope you upgraded your charge wire between alt and battery, something at least 8 B&S would be sufficient. The standard 6mm charge wire will cook if the alt is working at its upper limits. Most people when doing this conversion just loop the sense wire to the battery post on the alternator. This works however the correct way is to connect to the battery, that way the alt can compensate for voltage drop.

[Marks LXTorana]

Thanks Ben, all good advice. I was only looking for suitable auto wire suppliers on line tonight, so I can rewire/upgrade most of the engine bay. Not many show up on Google other than the obvious Jaycar, Supercheap etc.

[Neils LX]

I run an VN alternator on my Torana but got one made up to 120amp instead of original 85 if your running fans brighter lights ect.

[gtrboyy]

What did 120A set you back & who from?

 

Nobody really stocks V-pulley VS Commodore 120A...a few might have VT but they're wrong pulley or not even genuine Bosch brand.

 

There is bloke out west now converting Mitsubishi 140A alternators from ls cars to suit holden brackets but not cheap or off shelf.

[Marks LXTorana]

Dr Terry, I think i have worked out the exciter circuit which will help explain my earlier question:

So does the exciter wire earth the circuit which illuminates the dash light, until the engine runs which in turn breaks the circuit? I can only assume this is how it operates, as the other side of the dash light is the pink wire that provides a live to the cluster instruments. Therefore I was a little bit ahead of myself when asking if it needs to run via the ignition "on" live (which is the case with the pink wire).

 

Regarding the dash bulb, the best I have been able to find is from Supercheap and is a 3w bulb. I will need to go searching through some lighting stores in the hope someone stocks a 2w bulb, if it is that critical...

[ben23]

When the alternator is stationary the globe is "earthed" via the field windings in the rotor. Once the alternator begins generating, 12v appears at the warning light terminal and with 12v on both sides of the globe, it goes out. You definitely don't want a globe with too high a wattage or you will cook the exciter diodes. Go to an auto electrical wholesaler like Ashdown-Ingrams, Baxters, CoolDrive, Vanline etc. and tell them you want a 12v 2 watt T10 wedge globe.