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Fitting Original Rear Discs to UC

Started by _torana50_ , Jun 26 2009 11:55 AM

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74 replies to this topic

#51 Steve TPF

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Posted 26 January 2010 - 06:36 PM

The new bearings haven't been fitted yet, so everything is standard. The problem I see is that even with the axle pushed hard into the housing the disc sits too far out for the caliper. Has anyone actually fitted the discs with the drum axles?

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#52 dattoman

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Posted 26 January 2010 - 08:03 PM

It has been done many times in the past, using drum axles, std bearing (or UC disc brake bearing which AFAIK is the same part anyway) and the HZ disc brake seal.

I would suggest you check to ensure the bearing that has been pressed on is correct. �I have LX Drum and UC Disc axles here and the bearing is identical. �The wheel track will be slightly wider (<1/4" I think) with the discs.

Grant..

This guy did
He even had a tutorial on it with pics and everything

How about you grab the Kodak and help us all out with some visuals

Guys dig visuals and porn
Girls read Mills and Boon

Might help us get our heads around your issue

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#53 Steve TPF

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Posted 26 January 2010 - 09:15 PM

The tutorial seems to have gone AWOL. I'll post some pics on the w/e if I can. Currently I don't see any way it's going to work with the drum axles.

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#54 _UC HATCH_

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Posted 27 January 2010 - 01:27 AM

Is this the one you are looking for?

Seem to have shrunk from what I remember it was.

http://www.gmh-toran...showtopic=29360

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#55 Steve TPF

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Posted 27 January 2010 - 04:45 PM

Thanks, but unfortunately that's just the start of it. There's a link, but it takes me back to the main forum page.

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#56 enderwigginau

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Posted 01 February 2010 - 09:43 PM

Figure 1: LX drum axle front, UC disc at rear

axle2.JPG 361.24K 23 downloads

Figure 2:�LX bearing retainer

axle4.JPG 361.85K 26 downloads

Figure 3: UC bearing retainer

axle5.JPG 355.21K 32 downloads

Figure 4: LX - rear of axle flange to top/outside of bearing retainer is ~85mm

axle6.JPG 366.95K 30 downloads

Figure 5: UC -rear of axle flange to top/outside of bearing retainer is ~75mm

axle7.JPG 356.6K 39 downloads

Figure 6: Spacer/Seal is ~7mm deep, and fills the depth of the calliper hanger.

axle8.JPG 362.69K 30 downloads

This said and shown, it shouldn't make a difference, as many have done this by only getting the UC/HZ disc-brake seal/spacer put on behind a new bearing. �The bearing retainer does not �bed out anywhere so makes no difference to the axle.

Grant..

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#57 _UC HATCH_

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Posted 02 February 2010 - 01:47 AM

Thanks Grant for the pic's

Mark

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#58 enderwigginau

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Posted 03 February 2010 - 11:05 PM

Took some more pics and will upload tomorrow night.

Grant..
-------------------------------------------------------------------

bearing01.JPG 341.05K 31 downloads

bearing05.JPG 342.37K 25 downloads

These two show that the Disc-brake axle (on the right - longer studs) has the bearing pressed on closer to the flange than the drum axle. (The machined surface is the same height - the drum axle is 5-8mm longer which is production tolerance or my workshop floor

) This confirms the previous pics/measurrments.

By luck or design, those who have used their own axles in the past have managed to have the bearing pressed on in close-enough to the right spot.

So long as you get the bearing on 1/4-1/2" further, then you'll be sweet.

Grant..

Edited by enderwigginau, 05 February 2010 - 06:03 PM.
Pics added

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#59 _UC HATCH_

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Posted 06 February 2010 - 02:42 PM

Hi Grant,

I haven't pressed bearings on for a long time myself but I am sure there is a shoulder that the bearings are pressed up to and cant be pushed on any further.
I don't think the drum axle can be used for the disc brakes as Steve TPF has found out the hard way.

The drum axles are loner from the flange wheel bolt face to the bearing stop.

Posted Image

Edited by UC HATCH, 06 February 2010 - 02:50 PM.

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#60 _UC HATCH_

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Posted 06 February 2010 - 06:06 PM

Grant can you give the measurements for A,B,C,D in the picture.

Also is the disc axle spacer a separate item or joined to the retainer and its height measurement.

'A' = ?? mm from bolt flange to bearing retainer ring Drum Axle
'B' = ?? mm from bolt flange to bearing retainer ring Disc Axle
'C' = ?? mm from bearing retainer ring to end of spline/axle Drum Axle
'D' = ?? mm from bearing retainer ring to end of spline/axle Disc Axle

Thanks

Posted Image

Edited by UC HATCH, 06 February 2010 - 06:12 PM.

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#61 enderwigginau

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Posted 07 February 2010 - 04:49 PM

I'll have to get back to you. �All measurements (approx as I don't have a caliper rule atm) will be with the retainer pushed hard up against the bearing obviously.

Spacer/Disc Brake Seal is separate from the axle retainer and obviously needs to be slipped on prior to the bearing being pressed on. �

Grant..

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#62 _UC HATCH_

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Posted 07 February 2010 - 06:04 PM

That's OK, Just a tape hooked on the wheel side of the press on retainer rings to the axles ends (spline end)for measurements 'C' & 'D'

Then a tape hooked through the large hole that is usually in the wheel bolt up face back to the wheel side of the press on retainer ring for measurements 'A' & 'B' (PROBABLY WITH A STEEL RULER BETWEEN THE BEARING AND THE PRESSED ON RETAINER RING)(sorry for the caps)

the retainer plate wont be needed to be held as it wont affect the measurements, as the bearing side face of the pressed on ring will be the main point on both axles to measure from both ways.

Is the spacer a steel ring in the pic that is behind the retainer plate and before the seal and is it a part of the retainer plate or separate ring.

Posted Image

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#63 enderwigginau

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Posted 07 February 2010 - 11:15 PM

Yes that is the spacer

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#64 Steve TPF

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Posted 08 February 2010 - 05:49 AM

All of which takes us back to the question I asked a couple of pages ago about whether special instructions are required when fitting the new seals and bearings - evidently they are. The retaining collar does have to be relocated when using the drum axles. By my measurements, the flange needs to be 14mm closer to the diff side. When using the standard axles, the disc just fits inside the caliper with no room for the pad.

Thanks for the pics. One question though: does the spacer sit flush against the axle retainer, or does it have a beveled section that sits inside it? The reaction plate is 10mm thick, a 7mm spacer would not take up all of the slack.

Edited by Steve TPF, 08 February 2010 - 05:53 AM.

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#65 enderwigginau

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Posted 08 February 2010 - 01:40 PM

Hard up to the retainer - my tape isn't calibrated

The outside of the bearing ring is usually what the retainer tensions up against isn't it? And this pokes out of the tube a tiny fraction? 2-3mm say?

I really don't want to crack a good bearing off a fine spline axle. Does anyone have an old or broken drum axle they could take to with a cold chisel?

Grant..

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#66 Steve TPF

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Posted 08 February 2010 - 03:35 PM

Looking at your above pic of the disc and drum axles side-by-side, the seal on the drum axle appears to be slightly thinner - indicating to me that it sits about 3mm inside the retainer.

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#67 _UC HATCH_

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Posted 08 February 2010 - 04:14 PM

Hi Steve I think you are looking at a shadow also.

Hi Grant

No need to remove the bearings at all.

take measurement from the arrow point each way

Posted Image

Edited by UC HATCH, 08 February 2010 - 04:21 PM.

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#68 enderwigginau

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Posted 09 February 2010 - 12:28 PM

No two shafts are the same length - QC was pretty wild. Near enough.....

The retainer on the drum axle is definitely closer to the hub. I'll grab some callipers and have a look tonight.

Grant..

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#69 _UC HATCH_

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Posted 09 February 2010 - 02:54 PM

Hi Grant

Can you give the measurements for 'B'&'D' for the disc axle in the picture above and compare 'A'&'C' with your Drum Axle .

The disc axle spacer what its height measurement.

'A' = 83mm from bolt flange to bearing retainer ring Drum Axle
'B' = ?? mm from bolt flange to bearing retainer ring Disc Axle
'C' = 623mm from bearing retainer ring to end of spline/axle Drum Axle
'D' = ?? mm from bearing retainer ring to end of spline/axle Disc Axle

Thanks

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#70 _UC HATCH_

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Posted 11 February 2010 - 12:09 PM

Any updates for the measurements Grant?

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#71 enderwigginau

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Posted 13 February 2010 - 10:16 PM

B = 73mm

D = 623mm

BTW - A = 85mm, C = 623

Total lengths - Disc - 695mm, Drum - 707mm

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#72 _UC HATCH_

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Posted 13 February 2010 - 10:31 PM

Thanks for those measurements do you have a measurement handy

Thanks

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#73 _torana50_

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Posted 09 September 2010 - 10:41 PM

I have been following this post since I first asked about it and am impressed with the knowledge and detail that everyone has added to the discussion.

I have managed to get a good set of fine spline disc axles which will make my fitting a lot easier i think.

Still have not seen any update on availability of new rotors. I'd think there would be a steady market for them.