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HQ stud pattern, Commodore wheels

Started by _evil UC hatch_ , Dec 30 2009 09:55 PM

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#1 _evil UC hatch_

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Posted 30 December 2009 - 09:55 PM

I have read a few posts where people ask if commodore wheels can be used on HQ stud pattern, and I have known the answer for some time but have just found this info on oldholden.com that has the measurements and as you can see, it's NOT the same stud pattern (I am just quoting the relavant info, more via the link)

Q. Will commodore mags fit on my HQ-WB??

A. NO!!! here is the reason why.....

HQ - WB PCD: 5 on 120.65mm (4.75"), Offset 30 mm Towards the inside of the rim for standard offset wheels.

Torana LH with option L34 and LX with option A9X: PCD 5 on 120.65mm (4.75") with -1/4" Offset. Same stud pattern as HQ-WB with a different offset.

Commodores use a 5 on 120 mm (4.724") PCD. Very close to the HQ - WB PCD but not close enough. If you put Commodore wheels on an old Holden (or vice versa), you will break your studs and be overtaken by your own wheel...not a good look.

here is a link to where I am refeering to:

http://holdenpaedia.oldholden.com/Stud_Patterns

Now I know some people will tell you that they have done this in the past and will tell you that there is no problem, its close enough, but is it worth the risk?? just imagine the damage that could result if a wheel was to come off, not only will it break off the studs but that corner of the car will hit the ground, the wheel will most likley hit the guard on its way out, not to mention the runaway wheel could hit anything and everything, someone could even be seirously hurt. I know I would not like to be liable for the damage occured from such an incident

remember, saftey is more important than looks, and performance!!

I thought this might be a good reference point for next time the question comes up

Edited by evil UC hatch, 30 December 2009 - 09:56 PM.

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#2 dattoman

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Posted 31 December 2009 - 04:41 AM

Just because its been done for years doesn't make it right

Old school backyard mechanics with "she'll be right" attitudes think they can get away with stuff till something breaks
Then its the components fault not theirs cause they screwed up

I don't know why people scrimp and cheat on items of such importance and safety

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#3 76lxhatch

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Posted 31 December 2009 - 06:11 AM

I don't know why people scrimp and cheat on items of such importance and safety

Its weird, huh? The horsepower budget is huge but any old bits will do for wheels/tyres/brakes/steering... :dontknow:

Quiz the guys with alloy wheels who put them on the wrong stud patternand they will usually admit that the studs shave a little out of the stud holes each time they force them on and off!

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#4 _prrojo_

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Posted 31 December 2009 - 07:47 AM

definately don't ,studs dont seat on thier shoulder.& side load,setting them up to break,wheel nuts don't seat in wheel,not square,wheel does'nt centre (on spigot like they should) or even on studs. Not good.

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#5 yel327

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Posted 31 December 2009 - 08:56 AM

I've had one come off on HJ ute. I didn't even know they were Commodore pattern mags until I looked harder. They were on the car when I bought it. Snapped off all 5 x studs on the RH rear.

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#6 _Viper_

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Posted 31 December 2009 - 11:10 AM

Ive always wonderd why the hell did holden do that in the first place? firstly why not just keep the same stud pattern? and if there was a reason why it needed to be changed why not make it 5x125 so its impossible to fit the wrong wheels!

Can you imagine how many people have unknowingly fitted commodore wheels to HQ and vice versa... wheels they just found at the wreckers or friend of a friend..

I bought some mags not that long ago from ebay... said were commo pattern in the add. but thinking back now I never actually checked it myself, who knows if the seller wasnt mistaken?

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#7 _hendo82_

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Posted 31 December 2009 - 11:54 AM

To add to the topic. I brought my torana 9 years ago. I am not 100% sure what stud pattern it is i always thought it was HQ but it has had pursuit rims. I am now on the lookout for a new set of rims(convo Pro). What would be the easiest way to tell what stud pattern i really have. I need advice. Thanks

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#8 dattoman

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Posted 31 December 2009 - 12:18 PM

They went from imperial to metric pattern
And changed the studs from 7/16 to 12mm (14mm on the new cars)

Thats why they did it... to bring Australian cars into line with the metric system...which actually came out in Feb 1966 but were slow to adopt it

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#9 _evil UC hatch_

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Posted 31 December 2009 - 01:00 PM

Just because its been done for years doesn't make it right

Old school backyard mechanics with "she'll be right" attitudes think they can get away with stuff till something breaks
Then its the components fault not theirs cause they screwed up

I don't know why people scrimp and cheat on items of such importance and safety

that is exactly the reason I wrote this post, Im not a fan of that "she'll be right" attitude

To add to the topic. I brought my torana 9 years ago. I am not 100% sure what stud pattern it is i always thought it was HQ but it has had pursuit rims. I am now on the lookout for a new set of rims(convo Pro). What would be the easiest way to tell what stud pattern i really have. I need advice. Thanks

sometimes the nuts have on them what size they are, that would be a good place to start.

a few years back I worked in a carburettor workshop, we had a HQ panel van come in with the back wheel nuts coming off, it had a commodore diff in it, HQ wheels, the van only went about 20kms before that happened

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#10 _Viper_

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Posted 31 December 2009 - 01:35 PM

Ok fair enough changing to metric... but why goto a size which was oh so similar to the last and can cause confusion instead of like 5mm bigger (5x125) or would it just been a matter of they didnt think of that.

Actually ive always wonderd why they never standardised stud patterns across the board? Like is there any difference between 5x120 and 5x114 (performance/durability wise) or is it just different... Wouldnt it be easier if every 4-stud car had the same pattern and every 5-stud and every 6 stud etc? or is it the case of like say commodores use their stud pattern cos they all use the same offset rims? and all falcons use a different offset so they use their stud pattern?

Altho I know with gems there 4x100 and most other 4x100 mags are in front wheel drive stud pattern

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#11 _beergut_

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Posted 28 January 2010 - 01:03 AM

simple and easy answer $$$$

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#12 dattoman

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Posted 28 January 2010 - 10:56 AM

Larger stud pattern is better

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#13 _brett_32i_

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Posted 28 January 2010 - 11:29 AM

other point most often no considered is that the rim should locate on the hub, not wheel studs.

wheel studs are there to hold the wheel on. hub is there to take wheel load (obviously not rotational loading from burnouts and braking though)

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#14 76lxhatch

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Posted 28 January 2010 - 05:28 PM

It doesn't matter what you locate the wheel with, as long as it is correctly centred. The spigot is an (almost) foolproof way of doing so, making it the widely accepted best practice.

The spigot does not and should not take the load, the wheel is clamped to the hub using the studs in such a manner that they effectively become one assembly, spreading the load evenly across the bearings (this is why wheel offset is important).

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#15 _Viper_

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Posted 18 July 2011 - 08:55 PM

Digging up a old thread... But whats the best way to measure either a rim and a hub for what stud patten it is, If its only 0.65mm difference? I put my Commodore rims on my Torana before (car not driven just had to take my HQ wheels to get tyres changed) and you would never tell by eye, seemed to fit perfect. My commodore wheels are actually a nice snug fit on the center hub where as my HQ rims center bore is too big. Which has me worried maybe I actually got a Commodore hoppers kit so want to double check the stud pattern

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#16 _evil UC hatch_

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Posted 18 July 2011 - 09:13 PM

you might find they use the same hub for both, and drill the stud holes to suit, measuring it could be tricky, I have tried in tha past without much success with accuracy.

maybe give them a ring and ask?

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#17 76lxhatch

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Posted 18 July 2011 - 09:40 PM

^ I believe they do use the same hubs

Aside from being able to visually identify the origin of the wheels, its easier to tell when you have it wrong with mag nuts than tapered nuts as they rub quite heavily on the wheel. With tapered nuts I'd start by nipping up only one then slowly doing up an opposite nut without pressure on the wheel, if you look carefully you should be able to see if it lands on the inside or outside of the seat excessively.

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#18 _A9XOSS_

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Posted 16 October 2011 - 08:00 PM

i just measured my stud pattern hq or commo, from the centre of each stud they measure 70mm and the hub diameter is also 70mm. i had my rear axle stud pattern changed from torana to hq, but the studs are very close to the edge of the stud plate/hub if wish on the rear axles- only 2.8mm. im now worried if it right or safe!
as i'am putting 15x10 on them i don't want them over taking me or at worst killing me and my family. any info would be great.

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#19 _CHOPPER_

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Posted 17 October 2011 - 12:52 PM

HQ hub diameter is 71.5mm, Pre VE* Commodore is 69.5mm.

HQ uses 7/16" UNF studs, Pre VE Commodore use 12mm studs

As there is only 0.026" difference in the PCD, how did you measure it? With an inch ruler?

* Except 4 cyl VC/VH which uses 63.5mm

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#20 _Viper_

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Posted 17 October 2011 - 03:36 PM

Well this is how I ended up working it out... I had some M12 Wheel nuts and some 7/16th ones... 7/16th screws on easy as... The M12 ones do go on... but you can tell its not right.

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#21 dattoman

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Posted 17 October 2011 - 04:56 PM

So its like anal sex ?
It might fit in but its just not right ?

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#22 _Quagmire_

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Posted 17 October 2011 - 06:40 PM

So its like anal sex ?
It might fit in but its just not right ?

you ain't been with the right....or is that wrong girl datto lol

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#23 _shan620_

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Posted 17 October 2011 - 07:50 PM

i currently have my HQ hubs at brake place getting commodore stud pattern drilled in them, he said its very common.

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#24 _A9XOSS_

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Posted 18 October 2011 - 05:42 AM

HQ hub diameter is 71.5mm, Pre VE* Commodore is 69.5mm.

HQ uses 7/16" UNF studs, Pre VE Commodore use 12mm studs

As there is only 0.026" difference in the PCD, how did you measure it? With an inch ruler?

* Except 4 cyl VC/VH which uses 63.5mm

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#25 _A9XOSS_

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Posted 18 October 2011 - 05:48 AM

I use a new set a digital verniers,well hubs are exactly 70.5 mm. Stud thickness from thread edge to edge is 12mm. Do u guys think It may be hq pattern with commo studs then?