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HQ stud pattern, Commodore wheels


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#51 Dr Terry

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Posted 04 April 2013 - 02:14 PM

Each stud is off-centre only 0.33 mm, but the engineer had the proviso that the wheel MUST be located by the centre pilot, so there is no side force to break the studs. This is usually not the case, most alloy wheels on these cars are not centrally located.

 

Dr Terry



#52 SmacT

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Posted 04 April 2013 - 03:11 PM

Ok, though he knew the Centerlines I have lined up for it. I'll check it all, and if in doubt, get some new axles...



#53 76lxhatch

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Posted 04 April 2013 - 04:49 PM

But the whole point is that no matter how you locate it there will be lateral force on the studs, which they are not designed for. With mag nuts I can see the possibility of loose tolerances but with tapered nuts and seats the studs will hate you.

 

An axle that has been re-drilled may not be perfectly accurate (factory ones may not be great either) but I would certainly expect it to be a lot closer than that.



#54 Uncle Chop Chop

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Posted 04 April 2013 - 08:10 PM

With the history of hq/Commy mix and match disasters, I think it's time to dob in that engineer.



#55 Dave6179

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Posted 08 May 2013 - 08:02 AM

Each stud is off-centre only 0.33 mm, but the engineer had the proviso that the wheel MUST be located by the centre pilot, so there is no side force to break the studs. This is usually not the case, most alloy wheels on these cars are not centrally located.

 

Dr Terry

Shit, you're right. My alloys have the plastic cup that fits inside the centre hole.... technically allowing the rim to side load the studs. Also, getting back to factory 'tolerances' reguarding stud location, would explain why sometimes the nuts don't want to go in the stud holes sometimes... a little jiggle of the rim gets things moving though.

I'm in the process of swapping my banjo for the BW78. The front discs are starting to cry enough after 27 years of my ownership so I'll be upgrading everything to Commodore. Better keep the verniers out where I can see them!



#56 TerrA LX

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Posted 08 May 2013 - 09:19 AM

Old thread, and interesting topic, but I was just told by an engineer that using HQ pattern wheels on Commo stud pattern is fine by him. As long as the center fits the wheel ok, he reasons it is an ok thing to do, and offered that each stud being out by just 0.5mm according to his calculations isn't enough to make a dangerous difference. He also said most axles that are re-holed would vary by that much anyway, and that original HQ-spec axles back in the day could have those variances. 

 

This has confused the hell out of me given the above info. Not something I want to get wrong, but if a VSMMC-certified engineer is ok with it....

 


 

 

Well I have a set of dragway mags that run the shank wheel nut, without locating on the centre bore there is no way in hell i can get more than two wheel nuts on without forcing the studs out of place on a VN diff...



#57 Lazarus

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Posted 14 June 2013 - 08:12 PM

I bought a HX sedan parts car years ago that had been fitted with 14" SLE alloy wheels, and not for more than about 6 months. Every wheel had one or two broken studs.

Find a new engineer.

#58 snickersbar

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Posted 06 December 2013 - 08:52 PM

hi looking at using hq gts rims on my car that commodore axle, can i machine down OD on these to use on my rims??

 

http://www.ebay.com....=item2ec2369d25

 



#59 Bomber Watson

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Posted 06 December 2013 - 09:09 PM

NO. 

 

Stud pattern is still to far off.

 

Get HQ axles or run commy rims.

 

Cheers.



#60 snickersbar

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Posted 06 December 2013 - 09:22 PM

NO. 

 

Stud pattern is still to far off.

 

Get HQ axles or run commy rims.

 

Cheers.

it bolted up fine, i know there a slite diff in it,  just center hub was about 2mm small



#61 Bomber Watson

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Posted 06 December 2013 - 09:26 PM

Yes it will bolt up "fine"

 

But its not fine.

 

If you feel like running the risk of loosing a wheel, go ahead. Its due to dodgy modifications like your considering that car enthusiasts have such a bad name and that we have such strict rules we have to abide by.



#62 Lazarus

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Posted 06 December 2013 - 09:43 PM

I've been thinking about this subject for the last few days. My original plan was to run VB - VK drums on the redrilled Torana axles I bought off eBay., but it struck me the other day that the centre hole will be a different size.

 

 

Is it feasible for me to convert to HQ rear drums and carefully file the holes, maintaining a tight fit or will I be better to either increase the diameter of the centre spigot or have the Torana or possibly HQ drums redrilled ?



#63 76lxhatch

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Posted 06 December 2013 - 09:59 PM

Your drums will most definitely need to locate nicely on the centre spigot, you'll have problems if they're not properly centred. The stud holes in the drum are not so important, as long as they don't damage the thread or have such large holes that the surface contact between the wheel/drum/axle is reduced.

#64 Lazarus

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Posted 07 December 2013 - 01:13 AM

Thanks for your help.



#65 snickersbar

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Posted 07 December 2013 - 06:31 AM

Yes it will bolt up "fine"

But its not fine.

If you feel like running the risk of loosing a wheel, go ahead. Its due to dodgy modifications like your considering that car enthusiasts have such a bad name and that we have such strict rules we have to abide by.

How far out are the studs??
I thought as long as the center wheel is sitting on the center of the hub

Edited by snickersbar, 07 December 2013 - 06:34 AM.


#66 Lazarus

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Posted 07 December 2013 - 03:30 PM

The nuts and seats are tapered so when you tighten them they will stress the studs.



#67 Bomber Watson

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Posted 07 December 2013 - 03:47 PM

Yep, if your running tapered nuts and wheels it will stress the thread sideways, if you run the shank type wheel nuts you simply wont get them on.

 

From memory its about .4 of a mm out, way, way to much for my liking.

 

There is talk about machine shops and the like not getting redrilled ones any closer than that, i'd tend to disagree.

 

I'd be pretty upset if i got further than that out using a cordless and a tape measure, so surely with a lathe a mill and an indexing hub handy they can get them closer....

 

Cheers.



#68 snickersbar

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Posted 07 December 2013 - 06:15 PM

Yep, if your running tapered nuts and wheels it will stress the thread sideways, if you run the shank type wheel nuts you simply wont get them on.
 
From memory its about .4 of a mm out, way, way to much for my liking.
 
There is talk about machine shops and the like not getting redrilled ones any closer than that, i'd tend to disagree.
 
I'd be pretty upset if i got further than that out using a cordless and a tape measure, so surely with a lathe a mill and an indexing hub handy they can get them closer....
 
Cheers.


I seen on the net you can off center tapered wash for shank nuts will that work??

#69 Bomber Watson

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Posted 07 December 2013 - 06:25 PM

Your life. 

 

Personally i wouldnt go any faster than about 20kph with them.

 

Cheers.



#70 snickersbar

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Posted 07 December 2013 - 06:55 PM

Your life. 
 
Personally i wouldnt go any faster than about 20kph with them.
 
Cheers.


Do you now a good place to get old school looking rims for commodore??

#71 Bomber Watson

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Posted 07 December 2013 - 07:40 PM

Try Dragway or Intro?



#72 Ice

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Posted 07 December 2013 - 07:54 PM

Do you now a good place to get old school looking rims for commodore??


Ebay and gumtree would be your best bet

#73 _BOURKEY400_

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Posted 20 February 2014 - 07:37 AM

CAM00028.jpg

Com back hz front same with the wheel nuts B)  



#74 _cruisindoug_

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Posted 03 July 2014 - 06:17 PM

HQ hub diameter is 71.5mm, Pre VE* Commodore is 69.5mm.

HQ uses 7/16" UNF studs, Pre VE Commodore use 12mm studs

As there is only 0.026" difference in the PCD, how did you measure it? With an inch ruler?







* Except 4 cyl VC/VH which uses 63.5mm

 

7/16 inch equals 11.1125 mm, feasible to get 12mm Commodore studs put into HQ pattern gear with an offset hole drilled to the correct PCD??? Although for a set of HQ front discs, probably simpler to start with blanks!


Edited by cruisindoug, 03 July 2014 - 06:18 PM.


#75 Lazarus

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Posted 03 July 2014 - 09:59 PM

I've been wondering exactly the same thing. I've got a couple of near new discs from a HZ. Was going to ring the machine shop who drilled my brake drums after I got the exact measurements.

 

HQ - WB PCD: 5 on 120.65mm (4.75"), 

Commodores use a 5 on 120 mm (4.724") PCD. 

 

7/16 inch equals 11.1125 mm. 0.8875 divided by 2 = 0.44375. Larger than 0.325 so all good, assuming my deductions are on the right track.

 

So it should be feasible no ?

 

 

.


Edited by Lazarus, 03 July 2014 - 10:01 PM.





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