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HQ stud pattern, Commodore wheels


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#101 Marks LXTorana

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Posted 20 June 2020 - 10:45 AM

Hi Mark,

 

I don't know the answer to your question, I do see what you mean about the wheel nuts not looking centred and as it looks like they are all closer to the centre it could make sens as the Commodore pcd is small.

I would guess there is some sort of serial number on the Simmons centres and if you called Tempe Tyres they might be able to i.d. the pcd.

Just an idea.

 

Good luck

 

Cheers, Tom

Thanks Tom, the inside of the wheel has B45 cast into it and 628 stamped into it. I will try measuring with a digital vernier when I take the wheel off. Hopefully that will give me a good idea. I was just hoping someone might know what the error looks like between the two PCD sizes.



#102 Marks LXTorana

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Posted 20 June 2020 - 10:52 AM

Not sure what you mean that we can tell by the photos?

I assume those are HQ rotors which will be 4.75” PCD which is 120.65mm. Are the wheels 120mm? Just buy new HQ rotors drilled to 120mm. Probably from Hoppers.

From the photo though it looks the other way around, like the wheels are HQ 4.75” and the studs are 120mm?

What about the rears?

Yes yel327 it seems the opposite, where the rotor studs have the smaller PCD and the wheel APPEARS slightly larger. I would need to buy rotors with slightly larger PCD drilled to suit the wheels although logic would suggest there must be a standard rotor with the correct PCD to suit the wheel? I was hoping to bolt off, bolt on without too much engineering. It is just strange the builder did such a good job on building the front end with the lower UCA and rear mounted calipers, chamfered cross member etc, and leave the wheels like this!



A close up on the wheel fitted with a single nut removed may help, the wheels obviously have clearance machined around the nut that is offset (probably because the nuts are so close to the centre) which makes it look a little odd, but we can't see the tapered seat itself. If it wasn't right you'd also see uneven wear on the inside or outside only of all seats in the wheel.

Yes good point 76lxhatch. I can take a photo with one nut removed, it will give a better picture of what I am dealing with. Let me get back to you on that.



#103 Marks LXTorana

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Posted 20 June 2020 - 11:01 AM

If you are buying new rotors... I would do the following

 

Buy DBA014 undrilled rotors (I like slotted... but not drilled)

Same as you have but no holes and no studs

Then I'd take one wheel and the new rotors to an engineering shop and have them drill the rotors to suit the wheels

I'd also fit half inch studs... or at least 12mm commodore metric ones

Just means getting new studs and nuts... not a biggie in the scheme of things

 

Then you know the stud pattern matches the wheels

And for how often you replace rotors... not really an issue about having to do it again in 10 years.

Thanks Dattoman, that leads me in the right direction (I didn't even know the correct rotor part number!).

Looks like the standard PCD for that rotor is 120.65mm. I will need to start with doing some fine measurements first to see if I can confirm either the wheel or rotor to be standard or non-standard.

Really, I was just hoping if anyone can tell by the photo whether it looks like the typical mismatch of a 120.65 wheel with 120 studs.....



#104 yel327

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Posted 20 June 2020 - 11:21 AM

I reckon the wheels must be 4.75” and the stud pattern 120mm. Are the rotors HQ-WB though?

#105 Marks LXTorana

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Posted 20 June 2020 - 11:27 AM

Do you get the caliper hitting on full lock? I remember when I first put Holden rotors on my LX I put HQ calipers at the back like you have and they hit on full lock. Only choice was to fit UC calipers on the front with Holden carriers and UC steering arms. I changed to a full UC front end in at the same time. I couldn’t get A9X calipers at the time.

 

Yel327 no, the cross member has been chamfered and re-welded so there is full clearance lock to lock. A really good job that I hadn't noticed until after I had bought the car and started pulling it apart. I still cant confirm if this is a standard A9X set up or custom but I can confirm the UCA's are located lower than the LX standard height (no old holes so maybe just RTS?), rear mounted HX calipers, vented discs from HX/WB, steering arms have part number GM9928329 and I think the stub axle is 9943693. I can also confirm the set up sits very nice with a full length spring. At one stage I fitted lowered springs and the cross member was like an inch off the ground!

I have been looking at https://ls2lxhatch.com/suspension.htm and I can see most part numbers although a couple of digits don't match.

Attached Files



#106 Marks LXTorana

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Posted 20 June 2020 - 11:35 AM

I reckon the wheels must be 4.75” and the stud pattern 120mm. Are the rotors HQ-WB though?

That's anyone's guess yel327! This whole process is a discovery tour.... :<_<:



#107 yel327

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Posted 20 June 2020 - 11:40 AM

Those are HZ-WB calipers. The holes down low like that are LX RTS. A9X and UC had the arms up as high as they can go. The upright bit of the crossmember where it joins the top cap is attached differently on those too to create room for the higher up holes to mount the top arms to. Can’t quite see if the top arms are UC or not, the ball joint does look like it sits back a bit.

#108 Marks LXTorana

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Posted 20 June 2020 - 04:04 PM

Those are HZ-WB calipers. The holes down low like that are LX RTS. A9X and UC had the arms up as high as they can go. The upright bit of the crossmember where it joins the top cap is attached differently on those too to create room for the higher up holes to mount the top arms to. Can’t quite see if the top arms are UC or not, the ball joint does look like it sits back a bit.

 

Thanks for that, some of the mystery solved!



#109 rexy

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Posted 20 June 2020 - 06:18 PM

Attached File  06A2C3F9-605F-44B0-992F-6E43DD7FE94B.jpeg   107.44K   2 downloads


It might be visual trickery but that photo suggests the studs and nuts are all angled in to the centre.

Thats what happens when you fit a smaller PCD wheel (commodore) onto a larger PCD disc (HQ).

 

Its also suspicious that the socket marks seem to be on the inner edge of the nut holes.



#110 neglectedtorana

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Posted 20 June 2020 - 08:07 PM

Hi Mark,

 

Are your rears the same?

Maybe the answer can be found looking at the rear? Does it look correct or the same? Disc or drum?

 

Any chance you have any mates with a Commodore you can try the wheels on to see how they look?



#111 Statler

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Posted 21 June 2020 - 07:49 AM

Those nuts look a lot more out than 0.3mm. 



#112 yel327

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Posted 21 June 2020 - 08:27 AM

I struggled with that concept too but when Rexy pointed out that is what happens, the studs pull in. In which case it might mean 4.75” stubs and 120mm wheel with the studs angling inwards. Hard to grasp it but it could be the case.

#113 RedTaxi

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Posted 21 June 2020 - 09:05 AM

The counterbores where the nuts go can be generic and the actual PCD may not match perfectly. You wont see the difference like that, it's small. Interestingly over the pond here our modified vehicle cert process allows for the use of wobble nuts that can safely take up the discrepancy. 



#114 wrm78

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Posted 21 June 2020 - 10:09 AM

May not be right, but out of interest I have been putting over 1000hp to the tyres on a drag car with a commodore pattern and HQ rim. Been doing it for years without a problem. Car runs 1.3 second 60 ft. And know plenty of others doing the same thing. It's actually really common. I use ARP studs so probably says more about the quality of the stud than anything. My hypothesis is if your mixing and matching your HQ and Commodore wheels and stud patterns at least use a good quality stud. 



#115 bat 53

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Posted 21 June 2020 - 11:16 AM

i've being doing commodore wheels on hq wb rotors for years on my coversions 

just need to machine the centre hub to suit the wheel



#116 yel327

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Posted 21 June 2020 - 12:47 PM

i've being doing commodore wheels on hq wb rotors for years on my coversions
just need to machine the centre hub to suit the wheel


Good to know. The Simmons I have I’m still not sure if they are 4.75” or 120mm. The axles and front disc hubs are both 2 25/32” (70.6mm) so are Ford but the Simmons are by rough measurement 73mm. So I’ll get a set of centre bore adapters for all corners and some 73mm centre bore 7mm spacers made for the fronts and tacked to the rims as a Datto suggested.

#117 Marks LXTorana

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Posted 21 June 2020 - 04:32 PM

A close up on the wheel fitted with a single nut removed may help, the wheels obviously have clearance machined around the nut that is offset (probably because the nuts are so close to the centre) which makes it look a little odd, but we can't see the tapered seat itself. If it wasn't right you'd also see uneven wear on the inside or outside only of all seats in the wheel.

Mystery solved and 76lxhatch you are on the money! Firstly, the wheel hub is a nice tight fit onto the rotor hub which is good. When I put the wheel on and put on a couple of wheel nuts, it is clear that the studs are perfectly centred with the wheel. Visual trickery at play! Yes it seems at some stage someone has decided on a chromed dome nut that required a little more clearance to get a wrench or socket over the nut, leading to the extra clearance marks that can be seen on the inside edge. The main thing is the chamfer is perfectly concentric and the studs are not pulled in either. Happy days!

The rear is a 9" and does not have the same visual error. All looks good there. 

 

Thanks everyone for your input, another mystery solved.



#118 Dave6179

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Posted 24 July 2020 - 10:57 AM

Better to know than guessing!

Anyone remember Clarence from Daktari??? First thing I thought of when I saw the wheel pic.



#119 Marks LXTorana

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Posted 24 July 2020 - 12:03 PM

Better to know than guessing!

Anyone remember Clarence from Daktari??? First thing I thought of when I saw the wheel pic.

Daktari... now that brings me back! Never was a big fan though..



#120 claysummers

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Posted 24 July 2020 - 12:19 PM

Shintaro the samurai all day every day


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#121 Cook

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Posted 24 July 2020 - 01:33 PM

Ah yes.  With my snood on down here in covid land I look like Tombei the Mist. lol Cheers Ron



#122 yel327

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Posted 24 July 2020 - 02:26 PM

Better to know than guessing!
Anyone remember Clarence from Daktari??? First thing I thought of when I saw the wheel pic.


Clarence the Crosseyed Lion. I remember that show. There were a few shows in that era in Africa. Born Free was another.




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