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front end rebuild for LX


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#1 tsn007

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Posted 28 May 2010 - 07:59 PM

hi Guys,

has anyone got a picture of a LX V8 front end that can show me what bushes are what

looking to get a quote on a rebuild and want to make sure that i replace every thing

where should i use rubber and nolathane/super pro


also approx labour cost to do

thanks

#2 _robslxhatch_

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Posted 28 May 2010 - 09:05 PM

hi there mate, i dont have any pics but i'll give you my 2 cents worth. ive been a suspension specialist for a million years and ive fitted plenty of both types (both rubber and nolathane) and i am convinced ( even though i fitted nolathane type bushes to my front end years ago) that rubber ones are the go . 1. they last twice as long as the nolathane ones .2. they seem to press in and fit much better 3. the nolathane ones are harsher and dont have the cusion effect that rubber does , therefore more wear and tear on other suspension components ( some vehicles have even developed cracks in the x member and sub frames). if i had my chance to do mine again (and i probably will) i will use rubber lower inner and x-member to chassis mount bushes and the upper inners i would leave nolathane. as a rule i like to fit nolathane only where there is no spring load like locating arms or castor/radius rods that sort of thing.

#3 _SS Hatchback_

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Posted 28 May 2010 - 09:30 PM

Im changing mine over soon , all nolathane at the moment and going back to rubber but i have heard the chassis to crossmember (top and outrigger ones) are not avail in rubber anymore even though it is listed in the mackey rubber catalogue

#4 BCR42Y

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Posted 28 May 2010 - 09:37 PM

I need to get mine done also so I purchased the following kits from rares a short while ago;

LCA

UCA

Cross Member

Edited by BCR42Y, 28 May 2010 - 09:41 PM.


#5 _SS Hatchback_

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Posted 28 May 2010 - 10:01 PM

Well there you go, they are available :)

#6 TerrA LX

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Posted 28 May 2010 - 10:24 PM

As above, just use rubber.
Catch up Monday evening if you want and we will go over it or download the parts manual here
IMO only replace what is worn, especially on the top.

Did you find a fibreglass repairer yet?

#7 _glenn l_

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Posted 29 May 2010 - 10:26 AM

i agree with every one else, use rubber with maybe the exception of the sway bar bushes. for the bushes you have the 4 upper and 4 lower control arm bushes, the 8 x-member mounts and the 4 x-member out rigger bushes + the 2 sway bar to chassis mounts and the 8 sway bay link bushes, and possabily your steering rack mount bushes also. i have found the pedders rubber bushes to be the best, they are a heavy duty construction and seem to out last the other brands altho are a bit more expensive. if you want to use polyurethane bushes whiteline do them in black so they look like rubber bushes with out the red or blue coloring.

#8 _robslxhatch_

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Posted 29 May 2010 - 11:36 AM

of coarse i forgot to mention the swaybar , definetly nolathane there . also the reason you can get away with nolathane upper inners is because you want minimal/none movement or give in this area. some vehicle manufacturers even experimented with steel bushes .

#9 76lxhatch

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Posted 29 May 2010 - 11:47 AM

the 8 x-member mounts and the 4 x-member out rigger bushes

Only 4 cross member mounts (2 piece bushes) and 2 outrigger (1 piece bushes) ...?

#10 ls2lxhatch

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Posted 29 May 2010 - 12:12 PM

In my opinion the SuperPro Polyurethane are the best of the polyurethane bushes. The SuperPro steel outer shells are machined whereas the others are pressed steel. The machining should result in a more accurate outer diameter and therefore a consistent fit in suspension components. SuperPro bushes are typically available in three hardness grades Comfort, Sports and Competition.

I re bushed my k-frame in 91 with all rubber bushes except for the lower control arm rear bush which takes the most load under braking. The lower control arm rear bush was replace with a Superpro comfort setting bush. When I pulled the suspension are a couple of years ago the rubber bushes were worn but still ok and the SuperPro bush was like new.

This time I have replaced both lower bushes with SuperPro, I am still undecided about the uppers. WA Suspensions recommend rubber uppers for street and I keep hearing that polyurethane is too hard. If find this difficult to understand as greased steel bushes where used by holden until the introduction of the rubber bush in the HT.

#11 _Squarepants_

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Posted 29 May 2010 - 05:29 PM

For a street car Super Pro every where except upper control arms, use rubber there, too much stress there to use poly's. In the lower arms use the 70 duro in the rear pivots and the 80 or 90 duro in the front pivots. Nolathanes don't last as long as SP's as they seem to be harder and more brittle.
Just speaking from my experiences. I'm no expert but I have been playing with the suspension in my LH for the last 13 or so years. I run 40 profile tyres on 17" rims and the ride quality is excellent. Don't let anyone tell you that poly's make the ride unbearable!
I've heard Noltech (sp?) are ok too.

#12 76lxhatch

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Posted 29 May 2010 - 11:38 PM

SuperPro bushes are typically available in three hardness grades Comfort, Sports and Competition.


In the lower arms use the 70 duro in the rear pivots and the 80 or 90 duro in the front pivots.

They recommend a specific combination which is different for the front and rear bushes in each lower arm - can't remember exactly what it is at present but it makes sense

#13 ls2lxhatch

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Posted 30 May 2010 - 02:08 AM

From the SuperPro catalog.

Comfort
Front
Lower Front SPF2121-90K
Lower Rear SPF2121-70K

Rear
Lower trailing arm SPF2121-70K
Upper Tailing arm SPF2121-70K

Sports
Front
Lower Front SPF2121-90K
Lower Rear SPF2121-80K

Rear
Lower trailing arm SPF2121-70K
Upper Tailing arm SPF2121-70K

Competition
Front
Lower Front
Lower Rear

Rear
Lower trailing arm SPF2121-90K
Upper Tailing arm SPF2121-70K

#14 _cruiza_

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Posted 30 May 2010 - 09:17 AM

I set my car up twenty two years ago, and did 120,000 + Km in it before selling it two years ago.

Issues I had in that time were upper control arm bushes wearing out, rubber lasted best neolathane not so well.

What I had was:
Solid bushes sub frame to chassis, except rear lower (rubber).
Steering rack solid mounted
Lower control arms, Neopreme, (very hard orange)
Upper control arms rubber seemed to be best
Shocks were Koni revalued and adjusted to hardest setting
Lowells springs, standard height, I had HQ stubs so car sat very low anyway, 100mm clearance
Sway bar was Lovells front mounted unit using supplied bushes.

Car was very stiff even with my weight I could not jump on the car and get it to move more then a 30mm (trust me that is firm)

Ok all that sounds like a recipe for a rough harsh riding car, it wasn't
In fact most who rode in the car having heard seen how stiffly sprung it was were very surprised at how nicely the car rode firm, yes but not harsh and very precise.
One thing I did find was I had to keep on top of maintenance, if anything was worn shocks, bearing etc you could really feel it, same with wheel alignment.

for the record rear setup :
lower arms un-boxed, soft neopreme (grey)
Upper rear arms rubber
Shocks Koni hardest setting then backed off one full turn
Springs Lovells
Wheels were 14 inch by 7 and 8s on the rear and tires 60 series 225 on the front and 50 series 245s on the rear so that added to the comfort factor

If I was doing it again I would do it exactly the same

#15 fuzzypumper

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Posted 30 May 2010 - 01:31 PM

Ive had complete set of Nolathane neoprene in the front of the hatch (UC FRONT END)for 18 years.
I was only just last month I eventually had to change the upper arm bushes as they had shown signs of wear.
From the begining I wanted to be sure the uppers would go the distance as they are a bigger job to replace
and as far as comfort goes they are not a concern.
I decided to the Superpro uppers this time (time will tell but I have my suspicions).
I also changed the steering flex joint too as a precaution.
All the other nolathane bushes are still going strong.Im especially surprised at the LCA bushes condition
considering the pressure the uprated springs.

On my SLR I have used mackay rubber lower arm bushes A1202(front LCA) & A1203(rear LCA) which are the exact replacement
for the RTS UC front LCA so I get a more comfortable ride than the hatch.
On the UCA's I went with the Nolathane again simply for longevity and wheel alignment accuracy.
While I have bought Nolathane subframe bushes I'm still undecided and may go rubber.

I want comfort for the stock SLR but I have reservations about using looser rubber on the subframe
when Im using nolathane on the flexjoint and the long term wear on the steering rack with afront end that
will have the tendency to float around more.

#16 _glenn l_

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Posted 31 May 2010 - 08:17 AM


the 8 x-member mounts and the 4 x-member out rigger bushes

Only 4 cross member mounts (2 piece bushes) and 2 outrigger (1 piece bushes) ...?


yes you are correct but 4x2=8 and if you use poly the out riggers are 2 piece bushes making 4.

#17 76lxhatch

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Posted 31 May 2010 - 11:59 AM

Except they come as a single item because the top and bottom parts to the bush are different, and the outrigger bushes are still one piece (and a bugger to install)

#18 tsn007

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Posted 09 June 2010 - 09:01 PM

will the front k frame need to be dropped to change the top and outrigger bushes

can the bushes be removed & replaced on site ?

or will they need to be taken to away to workshop with a press

thanks

#19 _robslxhatch_

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Posted 09 June 2010 - 10:57 PM

will the front k frame need to be dropped to change the top and outrigger bushes

can the bushes be removed & replaced on site ?

or will they need to be taken to away to workshop with a press

thanks


they can be done in the car with a bit of work if the new bushes are 2 piece they are easy to fit .the original ones usually come out without too much trouble .if you use 1 piece ones they may require a bit of mucking around to get them in.if you are not confident then it might pay someone to put em in for you.

#20 76lxhatch

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Posted 10 June 2010 - 07:14 AM

The cross member must be at least dropped a bit to get at the bushes, by the time you've done that its effectively out of the car anyway.

Cut the old rubber outrigger bushes, they will come out easy then. Lube the new ones and they are not too bad to get in.

#21 TerrA LX

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Posted 11 June 2010 - 03:07 AM


will the front k frame need to be dropped to change the top and outrigger bushes

can the bushes be removed & replaced on site ?

or will they need to be taken to away to workshop with a press

thanks


they can be done in the car with a bit of work if the new bushes are 2 piece they are easy to fit .the original ones usually come out without too much trouble .


2 piece upper bush? Stop it, your scaring me.

#22 Heath

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Posted 11 June 2010 - 03:51 PM

:blink2:

#23 _robslxhatch_

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Posted 22 September 2010 - 09:17 PM



will the front k frame need to be dropped to change the top and outrigger bushes

can the bushes be removed & replaced on site ?

or will they need to be taken to away to workshop with a press

thanks


they can be done in the car with a bit of work if the new bushes are 2 piece they are easy to fit .the original ones usually come out without too much trouble .


2 piece upper bush? Stop it, your scaring me.

i didn't read that right , i meant the outrigger bushes only , if you wanted to do the TOP bushes better to drop the x-member .And i might add that you can get either one or two piece outrigger bushes depending on the brand .

#24 _Gunmetal LH_

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Posted 25 September 2010 - 06:59 PM

I got rubber everything from Holden's a few years ago. Worked out to be around half the cost of nolathane etc.

Why all rubber? More 'give'- Adelaide roads...

Though I got the 2 outrigger bushes in nolathane (one piece) as they weren't available in rubber at the time.

Edited by Gunmetal LH, 25 September 2010 - 07:00 PM.


#25 Heath

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Posted 27 September 2010 - 11:51 AM

If you could get higher profile tyres for your car with less carcass rigidity, would you get them too?

The material that a few bushes of those bushes are made of probably doesn't make a huge difference, but I think any opportunity to stop a car from being soft as shit during suspension actuation should be grasped.




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