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difference between supra and celica gearbox


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#1 bunkerjest

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Posted 31 July 2010 - 06:31 PM

can anyone tell me the difference between the two please (pics would be good). I have one in my torana and would just like to know which. also the speeo is 10% (speedo reads slower), is there a way to correct this
thanks

#2 greens nice

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Posted 31 July 2010 - 08:29 PM

easiest way to tell is supra is alloy, has ribs on the side, celica is cast iron, has a cast iron finish and doesnt have ribs.

#3 dattoman

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Posted 31 July 2010 - 08:55 PM

Unless its an alloy case Celica box out of a TA or early RA series

Location and Identification of TOYOTA 5 SPEED GEARBOXES
ArrowW55 - W59 SERIES - "SUPRA" f rom 1985 onwards

Fitted to 6 cylinder cars 2000cc up to 3000cc (single turbo).
Out of Celica, Supra, Cressida, Hilux 2WD and others,
(comes in floor shift and column shift).
No real markings on gearbox.
At front has 9 bolts, 2 dowels, 250mm high, 197mm wide.
Several gearlever positions. 455mm, 515mm, 530mm, from front face of gearbox.
(3 options on driveshaft yoke size)
34 Kg dry weight.

R154 SERIES "BIG SUPRA" from 1987 onwards.

Fitted to 3000cc Supras, single turbo and all twin turbo
No real markings on gearbox
At front has 9 bolts and 4 dowel positions, 265mm high, 226mm wide.
45 kgs dry weight

T50 SERIES

All alloy, and split joint like a suitcase.
7 bolts at front and bell housing acts as front cover seal
Input bearing varies 62 (nose cover - round) 68 (nose cover - square)
(Conversion bell housing has to match the bearing size)
Output spline varies depending on bearing size.
2 gearlever positions, 390mm and 490mm
No real markings on gearbox
27 kg dry weight

W40

4-speed transmission offered in base model vehicles.

Ratios:

* First Gear: 3.287:1
* Second Gear: 2.043:1
* Third Gear: 1.394:1
* Fourth Gear: 1.00:1
* Reverse: -4.091:1

Applications:

* 1971-1975ish Toyota Celica

W42

4-speed transmission.

Ratios:

* First Gear: 3.579:1
* Second Gear: 2.081:1
* Third Gear: 1.397:1
* Fourth Gear: 1.000:1
* Reverse: ?

Applications:

* 1980s toyota pickups and ?

W45

Little information is available for the W45 but service documentation from around 1980 lists it as being the 4-speed variant of the W55. It was used in Toyota RWD cars from around the same year.

The W45 was made all of aluminum alloy.

Ratios:

* First Gear: 3.566:1
* Second Gear: 2.056:1
* Third Gear: 1.384:1
* Fourth Gear: 1.00:1
* Reverse: -4.091:1

Applications: ~1980 RWD Toyota Cars
W50

Often called the "steel-case" transmission for its steel shell, in contrast to the later W-series transmissions' aluminum case.

Ratios:

* First Gear: 3.287:1
* Second Gear: 2.043:1
* Third Gear: 1.394:1
* Fourth Gear: 1.00:1
* Fifth Gear: 0.853:1
* Reverse: -4.039:1

W51

Came in early 80's CE71 Corolla wagon. Similar ratios as W52 except 5th

Composition is alloy.

Ratios:

* 1st gear 3.625
* 2nd gear 2.043
* 3rd gear 1.394
* 4th gear 1.000
* 5th gear 0.802
* rev gear 4.039

Applications:

* Toyota Corolla E70 jdm CE71/CE72 wagon behind 1C 1839cc diesel.

W52

Used in Australian delivered 2WD SR5 Extra-Cab Hilux (YN57)

Composition is steel.

Ratios:

* First Gear: 3.625:1
* Second Gear: 2.043:1
* Third Gear: 1.394:1
* Fourth Gear: 1.00:1
* Fifth Gear: 0.853:1
* Reverse: -4.039:1

Applications: 1984-1988 2WD Hilux (AU)
W55

This was the first of the aluminum-shelled W-series transmissions.

The W55 appears to be a base reference point for gear ratios that Toyota used to fine tune later models of the W-series.

Ratios:

* First Gear: 3.566:1
* Second Gear: 2.056:1
* Third Gear: 1.384:1
* Fourth Gear: 1.00:1
* Fifth Gear: 0.85:1
* Reverse: -4.091:1

Applications:

* 1982-1983 Toyota Carina
* 1981-1985 Toyota Celica
* 1983 Toyota Corona
* 1986 Toyota Soarer
* 1986 Toyota Crown
* 1983 Toyota Chaser
* 1984-1988 Toyota Pickup 2WD with 22RE(EFI) engine
* 2002-2005 Lexus IS300 (US Market only)

W56

A common truck transmission that came in 2-wheel and 4-wheel drive varieties.

Its ratios differ in comparison to the base W55 in the 1st and 2nd gears only; this is to allow a slightly heavier vehicle (truck) to get up to speed slightly quicker than if geared like a car.

This was most likely accomplished by taking the W55 base gears and changing the 1st and 2nd gear sets, as the rest of the transmission remains unchanged.

Ratios:

* First Gear: 3.954:1
* Second Gear: 2.141:1
* Third Gear: 1.384:1
* Fourth Gear: 1.00:1
* Fifth Gear: 0.85:1

Applications:

* Toyota Hilux
* Toyota 4Runner

W57

The W57 is sometimes designated as a "close-ratio transmission"; however in its stock form it does not meet all the criteria for a Close-ratio box.

The ratio shift was accomplished by taking the W55 base ratios and changing the input shaft to intermediate shaft ratio by 7.9%, thus shifting 1,2,3 ratios higher by that amount (4th is direct 1:1).

Unlike in the W58 the 5th/overdrive gear set was changed to create a smaller rpm drop between 4th & 5th gears so as to remain close to the overdrive ratio seen in the other boxes.

The rest of the transmission remains unchanged.

Ratios:

* First Gear: 3.285:1
* Second Gear: 1.894:1
* Third Gear: 1.275:1
* Fourth Gear: 1.00:1
* Fifth Gear: 0.861:1
* Reverse: -3.768:1

Applications:

* 1983-1986 Toyota Supra MK 2 in certain non-US markets.
* 1986 Toyota Crown
* 1986 Toyota Cressida
* 1982-1985 Toyota Celica (21R)

W58

It differs from the W57 in its fifth-gear ratio. This transmission is popular as a replacement for weak stock transmissions in other vehicles. It came in two varieties: the original found in the 1982-1989 non-turbo Supras, Celicas and Cressidas of the early 1980s; and the later version found in Mk3, Mk 4 Supras and Lexus SC 300s.

Toyota lists a change from an alloy sandwich plate to a steel sandwich plate around 1989. The steel sandwich plate has some minor internal differences, and it is believed to be slightly stronger (some wider bearings, some wider gears, slightly different gear selection mechanism, etc.). In theory the all-alloy version of the W58 should be the exact same strength as any other all-alloy W-Series transmission. The steel plate version is considered much harder to find and worth approximately three to five times as much as an all alloy version.

The ratios and bolt patterns remain the same regardless of the sandwich plate used.

The W58 & W57 share the highest gearing and closest ratios (1st, 2nd, 3rd, and 4th (direct)) of the stock W-Series transmissions.

The ratio shift was accomplished by taking the W55 base ratios and changing the input shaft to intermediate shaft ratio by 7.9%, thus shifting 1, 2, 3 ratios higher by that amount. This also shifted the overdrive 5th gear higher by the same amount creating a wider and taller overdrive ratio.

The W58 is sometimes designated as a "close-ratio transmission"; however, in its stock form it does not meet all the criteria for a close-ratio box.

Toyota engineers have shown favor to the W58 over the rest of the 'W' series by including it in so many models and even building a stronger version for higher powered applications.

Ratios:

* First Gear: 3.285:1
* Second Gear: 1.894:1
* Third Gear: 1.275:1
* Fourth Gear: 1.00:1
* Fifth Gear: 0.783:1
* Reverse: -3.768:1

Applications:

* 1982-1986 Toyota MK 2 Celica Supra
* 1986-1992 Toyota MK 3 non-turbo Supra
* 1993-1998 Toyota MK 4 non-turbo Supra
* 1986 Toyota Cressida
* 1986 Toyota Soarer
* 1982-1992 Lotus Excel
* 1992-1997 Lexus SC300
* 1998-2005 Lexus IS300 5 speed

W59

A common truck transmission, this was the successor to the W56. Like the W56, it came in both 2-wheel and 4-wheel drive versions.

This model appears to have a combination of ratios used in older models of the W-series.

* 1st and 2nd are low ratios like in the W56 for use to get a heavy vehicle moving.
* 3rd ratio is the same as in the W57/W58 for a lower rpm drop between 3rd & 4th useful in high-speed acceleration.
* 4th is direct 1:1 as per design in these boxes.
* 5th seems to be the base W55 overdrive ratio.

Ratios:

* First Gear: 3.954:1
* Second Gear: 2.141:1
* Third Gear: 1.275:1
* Fourth Gear: 1.00:1
* Fifth Gear: 0.85:1

Applications:

* Toyota Tacoma

From left to right as you see it ->

T50, W50, W58, R154.
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#4 bunkerjest

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Posted 31 July 2010 - 09:03 PM

thanks mate, i guess youd call that a "comprehensive" answer

#5 Mort

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Posted 31 July 2010 - 09:58 PM

Holy crap Datto :rockon: , have you left any info for anyone else to add. :spoton: :)

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#6 dattoman

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Posted 31 July 2010 - 10:35 PM

I just cut and paste

If anyone has some real experience... go for it

All I can say is I have the T50 in my Datto... and they wouldn't be strong enough to stand up to a 6 for very long.... I've broken them before with my NA 4 cyl

#7 TerrA LX

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Posted 01 August 2010 - 10:12 AM

T50 are not very strong at all, the W50 is alot stronger and would have to be the minimum choice for any performance application and can be improved with roller bearings, alot of people have a good run with the W50's 4 speed brother too.

#8 _Luscious_

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Posted 03 July 2011 - 06:03 PM

Having read all of the above info on the Supra box, I still don't know whether I'm 'Arfa' or 'Mafa'. A lot to understand and to digest. I have a 308 LX and want to put my M21 out to pasture and replace it with a Supra five-speed. My car has a VN LSD 3:4 I think. Would someone be able to advise as to what Supra box would be best suited. Naturally I'd like a robust gearbox and not one that is likely to fall to bits as the Torrie is running above the norm HP. In addition, I would prefer that fifth gear be reasonably tall for highway cruising giving low engine RPM. Lastly, does anyone know if complete conversion kits are available preferably from a reseller in the Brisbane area.

#9 dattoman

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Posted 03 July 2011 - 06:22 PM

R154 Supra would be the minimum for a healthy 308

#10 76lxhatch

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Posted 03 July 2011 - 09:32 PM

I dunno, I have a W55 and I'm surprised at how robust it actually is (might not be so good in heavier vehicle perhaps?). As above though the overdrive leaves a bit to be desired so you'd want to look for a W58 which has an overdrive slightly better suited to a torquey engine - they're harder to find though and by that time I guess the R154 is almost as cheap...




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