Group Nc LJ Torana
#1
Posted 20 July 2011 - 01:06 PM
Been scanning through the build threads to see if anyone has started one that is specifically targeted at an LJ torana Group N track car, as the title suggests. I havent seen any but Welby's Targa Hatch project is the type of thing I was searching for.
I am planning on developing my LJ Coupe pictured below into a track car. I have a couple of contacts one from this site (thanks Steve) and another is my uncle, they have been giving me lots of info on their experinces which is great.
I suppose my question/request is that if anyone hear has documented their build I would love to see it posted up. Opinions on engine, diffs, suspension...etc are also welcome, keeping in mind I want to build it to the Group N requirements so that later on if I decide I want to do more than just sprint days and hillclimbs the car is already setup to the specs.
I will start a thread on my build when I start to get into it a bit more. At the moment I am just really trying to acquire as many parts as I can to get the ball rolling and not stop due to waiting on parts. Im expecting the build to take up to 2 years but would love to have it ready for Targa Adelaide next year. But that only gives me a little over a year.
Any other info people would like to share or give their two cents is more than welcome.
Thanks
Dave
#2
Posted 20 July 2011 - 02:07 PM
I know it might sound picky and fussy but after you spen heaps of $$$ on items and development to get it right, they change their mind and you can't use it.
now we have a car built and can't race itm, and not just that but they want mega dollars for you to put your car on the track to provide the entertainment for others to watch.
NO WOUNDER MOTORSPORT IS DIEING IN AUSTRALIA.
#3
Posted 20 July 2011 - 08:59 PM
I have heard this same problem from a few people who have similar stories. My uncle has built quite a few track cars over the years and I can remember a stack of times where he was fuming as a scrutineer would say one thing and then a different scrutineer would say another the following week.
When I went to a sprint day just to have a go, 4 scrutineers were going over my car 3 of them were picking up stupid stuff almost as if to stamp their authority on me. Luckily the 4th guy was there and just said for me to make a note of it and sort it out next time...and that was just a sprint day for any car with any mods!
Its a shame that they make it so difficult, you would think that when its based on a class that was started over 30 years ago the specs should be the same as they have been for the last 30 years. Sounds too simple though!
Maybe I should go to a few more track days and see if I can get to know one of the scrutineers and hopefully have a contact to help with specs and interpretation of the CAMS manual!
Thanks for your time mate.
Dave
#4
Posted 21 July 2011 - 08:08 AM
has to be a std dizzy with a vn v8 ignighter for extra spark hidden out of the eyes of jo blow but allowed by the scrutineers. The big problem is they say of the erea. Which they where a lot of things big teams had that little teams didn't. I think they need to stop all of their bullshit and just say this part is approved and everyone has to use the same. It would stop alot of problems and more people would race cars.
Just because one guy might have a big budget and anouther a small one, if they have the same parts and same rules to follow then it would be more competative.
I know of one car that has a $50000 budget for a season and runs brass bushes instead of rubber ones. but it's not of the erea but he is still allowed to run it???? Go figer who is pissing in whos pocket become friends with them run what they have and then when your told you can't have that ask why not as we did. and still be told sorry you can't run that car.
Have fun and race hard and the best of luck with it all
Dave
#5
Posted 21 July 2011 - 08:46 AM
Hope it ends up working out for you, dont give up!
If you got any pics of your car I would love to see them. Post them up or PM me.
Thanks
#6
Posted 21 July 2011 - 05:50 PM
Lots of money wasted
#7
Posted 21 July 2011 - 09:55 PM
looks like I got a lot of investigating to do.
#8 _Agent 34_
Posted 22 July 2011 - 08:50 AM
When i was looking months , now years ago for my car I bought the book " strike me pink " and read it. The cost to build these cars is a big concern as this book tells a story that is a great read and also puts the cost down.
I have been looking at my105.com.au and it has race cars for sale and just to see what you can buy a whole log booked car for is worth a look.
love the shot of your car and white is always a great clean colour.
good luck with the journey Dave.
#9
Posted 25 July 2011 - 12:45 PM
Cheers
Dave
#10
Posted 10 January 2015 - 07:17 PM
I'm at the stage where I need to prepare the car for roll cage install. Removal of glass, hood lining and trim. Im trying to decide if I go the CAMS spec Group Nc cage or a cage that is acceptable for a Targa event too. The Targa one has about 6-8 extra bars and is only about $500 more. I would like to compete in a Targa event one day but know this may never happen.
Just wondering if others had similar thoughts when building their race car and what they ended up doing.
Cheers
#11 _Agent 34_
Posted 10 January 2015 - 07:39 PM
Heads up;
rang CAMS the other day with my car for getting a log book. , so i can run NC at meetings.
what you need is a period correct roll cage with a CAMS sticker ( which is what i have ) and then you can use the alloy cage. no sticker no alloy cage.
they will accept period correct cages ( as they are period correct as raced at the time ) BUT if you want to get a NEW car group NC and a NEW cage then it needs to be steel and to todays spec.
At the next meeting i will let you know after i discuss with the eligibility officer. I have down loaded the forms.
Getting a new steel cage is a big deal.
I'll try and post the outcome of my endeavors Feb 20-21-22 is the next race day.
If the car is logged booked ( group NC) then I'm pretty sure it's acceptable in targa - but you need rego with TARGA or a H plate.
G
Ps - just take the above as a guide as i cannot 100% be exact as i'm not there yet.
Edited by Agent 34, 10 January 2015 - 07:40 PM.
#12
Posted 10 January 2015 - 07:58 PM
Hi mate,
While my car is no full on Nc screamer.....just a roady with a few mods, ......I decided to take the suck it and see option. ( not sure how far down the track you are, so maybe you are ready/decided to go full Nc racing.?...if so, then this is probably irrelevant to you ).
I picked up a 6 point alloy cage ( with full knowledge of its limitations re CAMS etc) off Ebay for a few hundred $.
Then fitted up some door bars as well..
Yes it is questionable if alloy is approved for full racing, but well and good enough for sprints, hills, regularity etc.( as I recall they ran Bathurst with less back in the day?).....and remembering you can run standard road cars in these event!
My idea has always been to have a chop at this sort of stuff...and if I get serious , I'll just whip it out and sell it, and get the full CAMS one as you detailed above.
I'm under no illusion that compared to a welded in, steel unit, with all the triangulation and cross bracing, alloy 6 point offers only feel good protection, but its a start.
Good luck with the Nc project ....some of those cars are serious bits of gear.....but fun to be out there regardless.
Not sure that helps you...as if you are racing properly you may be steered to steel regardess...then the extra for the Targa unit is probably worth it, to have future entry flexibility.
Col
p..s looks like Grant and I were typing at the same time...his comments clarify my comments re alloy and CAMS etc
Edited by RallyRed, 10 January 2015 - 08:01 PM.
#13
Posted 10 January 2015 - 08:44 PM
Heads up;
Great thanks guys.
Yes my car was my daily drive originally and has no log book or CAMS approved cage. So I will require a steel cage. The main thing is to get it CAMS approved once finished so in the event that the rules change it won't affect my cage.
For peace of mind I just want to get a fully welded cage in. My car is still just a mild street setup but want to get the safety sorted first.
I am going to have it built through Simon Built Race Fabrications, his work looks excellent and he has heaps of experience. He fills in the forms and I just have to send them off. He recommended I get the logbook done at the same time so the scruiteneering is out the way.
I would be interested to know if the group Nc cage is acceptable for Targa events. The Targa cage is a pretty serious bit of kit, with good reason though, pretty dangerous on public roads.
You're lucky you have the CAMS sticker Grant, you can keep your nice light alloy cage!!
#14 _Agent 34_
Posted 11 January 2015 - 08:37 AM
Dave,
Col also has a cams sticker on a cage he bought off fle bay and then installed - so see if you can find an alloy cage with a sticker ( they come up ) as it will be HEAPS cheaper and also will still be able to get a log book.
upto you though.
A race car can run in TARGA as the safety requirements are the same or similar. the problem with TARGA is that if you take a road car getting upto spec is the same as race prepping a car for the track - much for much
the difference is that a TARGA car needs some form of rego and a pretty sure you need a trip meter - all else is the same. So a log booked car with CAMS can comply with TARGA requirements.( pretty sure as i looked into this last year ).
but if you get a full steel welded cage then just be careful of rego.
G
#15
Posted 11 January 2015 - 09:32 AM
#16 _Agent 34_
Posted 11 January 2015 - 02:31 PM
1) if you have a cage with a " cams sticker and a number " mine is 345 i think then the cage has been accepted by cams at some stage as compliant at the time.
you can " transfer this cage into another shell if there was a racing incident where by the shell was damaged. hence you can re use an old aluminum cage.
They don't like to tell you this and would prefer that you use a " new steel cage" in any new car.
For instance my cage ( 6 point) does not have " side intrusion bars" between A and B pillar the guy at CAMS stated that they would NOT accept my cage if i put these side bars into the cage.
2) old cages - no CAMS sticker no go on the cage and they will not accept AT ALL as there is no reference point to " when the cage was accepted "
3) old cages can be what ever material was approved at the time.
GENERAL BELOW for NEW cages
#17 _Agent 34_
Posted 11 January 2015 - 03:37 PM
Edited by Agent 34, 11 January 2015 - 03:38 PM.
#18
Posted 11 January 2015 - 04:04 PM
but if you get a full steel welded cage then just be careful of rego.
Thanks Grant,
I presume most guys put their cars on rally rego? I like the idea of rally rego but don't like that once your car is on rally rego you can never convert back to street car. I don't plan on ever goin back to a street car but nice to have the option. But I guess once a car is log booked with CAMS then you probably can't convert to a street car ever again either
Leaning towards the group Nc cage.
Dave
#19
Posted 11 January 2015 - 09:31 PM
Hi Dave
My 2 cents worth .........
Like Agent 34 and RallyRed I also have a car that is not quite Group Nc spec but suits my purposes of sprints, hill climbs, regularity and tarmac rallies. My car has a CAMS Group 3J log book and is on Historic Rego.
I also agree that if you want a race car then there is significant value buying a completed car. As you are probably aware, many of the Group Nc LJ's that are for sale between $30k and $45k are way under their cost to build and develop. Some LJ's are producing upwards of 300hp - this alone costs serious money! I know lots of the fun with a race car is in the building of it, but even a ready to go race car will require changes to suit the new owner, improvements and maintenance. Plus you will need spares, a trailer .....etc. And the assistance that can be drawn on from a previous owner is invaluable.
There is an Nc Torana for sale on Gumtree at the moment that also has the added potential of a CAMS COD and therefor possible Group C classification (according to the seller).
There are some awesome pictures of the build of an LJ tarmac rally car at:
http://anygivenreaso...lj-xu-1-torana/
I look forward to reading about the progress with your car. All the best.
Steve
#20
Posted 12 January 2015 - 08:11 AM
Yep I know what your saying Steve.
Very pricey to build. I pretty much do everything myself and have help from my Uncle who is a mechanic and very experienced with these cars. I enjoy the build part, I'm trying to do everything myself and learn as much as I can.
Its also a lot easier to justify 5k spent on the car each year as opposed to dropping 30k on a built one. The missus would have my nuts! and probably make me sell my current car, I dont think I could ever sell it on, had it for 15 years now.
I'm in no hurry to have the car built, just enjoying the learning process.
Thanks for the link, I saw this a little while back, very nice car, no expense spared from the look of it.
I still dont really understand the rego side of things allowing the car to be driven on the road to rally events/mechanic and so forth. SA doesnt allow modified vehicles on historic reg.
Need to keep reading up.
Cheers
Dave
#22 _Agent 34_
Posted 02 March 2015 - 04:10 PM
Nice will be awesome to see the cage go in.
looks a good shell.
#23
Posted 02 March 2015 - 04:47 PM
following with interest mate.....like the look of your car!!!
#24
Posted 05 March 2015 - 06:59 PM
Well I got the call today, car was ready. Only took them about 2 1/2 days.
6 point cage to CAMS specs, they have kept the weight down as best they can, not adding too many bars in. I also got them to make up a seat mount and I now fit in the car much better.
Will spend this weekend sanding and painting the interior and cage. Hopefully have reassembled over the next couple of weeks.
#25
Posted 05 March 2015 - 07:07 PM
that looks like a serious cage...very nice
I just wish CAMS would log book the old , already approved design, cages in recently constructed cars.
When I hear they are sketchy on alloy cages in Nc etc these days ( and I CAN understand that) , I always have a little smile when I look around at some of the old genuine open wheel racing cars that are log booked...that have a single little hoop near the drivers helmet.......
Regardless....nice job mate...will follow your thread closely.
Edited by RallyRed, 05 March 2015 - 07:13 PM.
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