116 replies to this topic

[yel327]

R does mean repeat. However there seems to be a fair few replacement XU-1 engines with a R on the end, so the R remains a mystery.

Mike the first N series engine you quote is impossible ie NK1001. The very first of this series will have been ND, NL, NR, NT prefixed eg ND1001. The Nasco N prefixes started at the start of HQ engine production.

[S pack]

An example of abreviations being reused is the NP at the end of part numbers for the 1971 LC XU-1 and the HQ 1971 parts books, at that time it meant that that part was not previously available.
NP then became the prefix for replacement engines, unless I have missed something.

Replacement 186 engines were still available in 1972 but with changes to fit in with the 202 machining specifications.

Mike

The abbreviation N.P used after a part number simply means New Part and is totally unrelated to the NP prefix on the 202 XU1 replacement block. N = Nasco, P = XU1 202.

[yel327]

As above for NP.

The Nasco replacement engine number sequence you are talking about started at HQ engine release. This was around May 1971. The first engine Nx1001 could have been anything that was used in HQ, LC or HG at the time but one thing it COULDN'T have been was NK as these were not in use as CK engines until later in 1971. Between HQ engine release and NK engines the replacement XU-1 engine would have been 3100N prefixed.

[frash da bucket]

Hi Yel327,

I have been trying to work out of what the R means,i have been doing a lot of reasearch,and another friend told me that the NP means Non Production,but who knows,i have one of these NP blocks with the R stamped,its been in the car since 1973.

Cheers John.

[yel327]

Hi Yel327,

I have been trying to work out of what the R means,i have been doing a lot of reasearch,and another friend told me that the NP means Non Production,but who knows,i have one of these NP blocks with the R stamped,its been in the car since 1973.

Cheers John.

NP is easy. N is Nasco. P means the same as it does on a JP block.

Normally the R means the number has been stamped already. Example on red engines, if an engine got the number QL123456 and the hungover bloke on acid stamping them went to stamp the next engine and stamped QT123456 instead of QT123457 then it would get a handstamped R at the end so QT123456R. In these cases R means repeat. If he did it again it would get R1 the R2 etc. This alos applies to chassis numbers, I have a HZ Sandman ute recorded with a chassis number like BHZ12345AR. This is all well documented in GMH material. HOWEVER the ones i'm not sure about are the XU-1 replacement engines with a R on the end, there seems to be an awful lot of them. Normally I'd say as the Nasco numbers were low volume I can undestand the mistakes, but there seems to be a lot of them. I seriosuly doubt the R on the end means RACE, reason is GMH wouldn't have used the same process for 2 x different meanings.

[frash da bucket]

Hi Yel327,

Thank you for your input and help.

Cheers John.

[Kockum]

Enjoy.

[yel327]

As above for NP.

The Nasco replacement engine number sequence you are talking about started at HQ engine release. This was around May 1971. The first engine Nx1001 could have been anything that was used in HQ, LC or HG at the time but one thing it COULDN'T have been was NK as these were not in use as CK engines until later in 1971. Between HQ engine release and NK engines the replacement XU-1 engine would have been 3100N prefixed.

Thank you for that, this of course is explained on GMH service letter 141 dated 19th August 1971

This states that the CK was started on the HQ release which was July 1971 and goes further to state that C stands for LC and K stands for 186.
I have information on a Aug 71 NK so are you saying that this for a HG replacement because you then go on to say that NK didn't start till late 1971 when it became a XU-1 replacement? making the NK1000 number out of sequence?

You also say that the same letters cannot stand for two things and yet you agree that NP first stood for New Part at the release of the HQ, then changed meaning and became the XU-1 replacement prefix?

Then you say that R like on a 161 I have here means repeat and cannot possibly have a changed meaning when associated with a NP 7000 replacement block?

Mike

As far as I am aware the LC XU-1�s with CK prefixed engines weren�t around until August 1971. HQ engine series started way back in around March or April 1971 with many vehicles on the road by July 1971. So the first Nasco number in the HQ Nasco sequence (started at Nx1001) would more than likely have been for a HQ engine (ND, NE, NL, NM, NR, NS or NT) built ready for warranty issues associated with the new HQ series OR possibly (but much less likely) for a HG (ND, NE, NL, NM) or LC (NB, NC, ND, NE, NF). If you look at the LC service/warranty records you can see that LC�s didn�t start to get the HQ sequence engines until many thousands of numbers into that HQ engine number sequence (from memory they were around the 7000 mark), this is most likely explained by stockpiles of original LC sequence numbered engines being used up first. HG commercials built post HQ engine release are probably the same ie stocks of 161 and 186 used up first before 173 and 202 fitted.

There would never have been any Nasco engine numbered like NK1000. They always started at 1001. NK was always the replacement engine for the last of the LC XU-1�s, never used for anything else. I�m not sure if NK would have also become the replacement engine for original 3100X engines for the short time NK replacement engines were available or an original LC replacement 3100N would have been supplied. I have seen paperwork that shows what were recommended replacement engines for the older displacements (obviously once 161 and 186 replacement engines were all gone), and JP is specified as what you�d put in an LC XU-1.

N.P. is an abbreviation used in parts catalogues, has no relevance to engines. N.P is not the same as NP by any means. And they are in totally different areas of GMH. We are talking here about engine numbers. Along with chassis numbers, engine numbers were highly regulated. So whilst I didn�t say �cannot� with regards to R (I actually said �I seriously doubt�) I still believe it would be highly unlikely GMH would have a process where it was possible for an engine number to be repeated. If the R at the end does mean race I find it hard to believe GMH put it there intending it to be part of the engine number, and in that case it was possibly added after the engine left Nasco. If it was put there by Nasco logic says it�d basically have to mean repeat and it�d be in the same font as the engine stamps (the R used on 253 engines). The ones I have seen have the R away from the number like the one Kockum has put up above and sometimes it appears to be a different font, or a font not quite the same as the engine number. Which again makes one wonder what the hell it means!

I also doubt very much that Nasco assigned special numbers inside their own engine number sequence. If an engine is stamped NP7xxx it should be that way because the sequence had reached that number when the engines were stamped. I don�t have figures with me right now but from memory the Nasco HQ sequence had reached 7000 by the mid 1970�s which was well and truly in the ballpark for a late LJ XU-1 to be getting a replacement engine. Some LJ XU-1�s were sold into 1974 so in early 1975 some of these would still be under new car warranty. The fact the cast date may predate the 7000 series numbers just means the blocks were around for a while before being made into an engine and given a number.

The only other thing that springs to mind is if the R at the end of these engines has some �race� significance then it would be on the Nasco replacement engines built for the 150 x 1973 �Bathurst cars�. These engines were different to all other engines not listed on that bulletin and the purpose of that letter was to let servicing dealers know that they are different. So possibly an R was used to signify these engines as different from a spare parts perspective? And that is why it is away from the engine number?

Remember some of this is speculation, some is fact. The trouble with a lot of this historical stuff is it is often logical once you know the answer. Prior to that you'd never guess. Along that line I think I may have accidentally stumbled across one of the V8 LJ Toranas hiding in plain sight whilst looking for something else. With 20/20 hindsight logic tells me it should have been obvious.....

[Kockum]

Skapinad , NP 7100 was sold on EBAY . Seller was from A.C.T .

The NP you had some concerns about was sold on this site .

NP 4246 - page 49 in the for sale section .

[meanmachine72]

now you can compare both
both to me have seen a machine shop

Edited by meanmachine72, 28 September 2011 - 02:21 PM.

[yel327]

Hmmm. That block very much looks like it has had something under it and has been machined off. Once it had paint it'd probably disappear. Numbers do look like they have had different amounts of force stamped like they have been stamped individually rather than by a single operation eg air punch.

[TheKing]

NP7100R is my engine and definitely has not seen a machine shop. It's a replacement block for a Bathurst engine.

Cheers Jeff