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L34 or A9X


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#1 its Paul

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Posted 25 October 2011 - 10:57 AM

Is this an L34 or A9X, I have been told that it is brocks 78, 4 door making it an A9X, but the front end looks like LH L34 did they use an LH for Brock until the SS was ready?

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#2 _LXSS350_

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Posted 25 October 2011 - 12:21 PM

I don't remember Brock racing a 4 door in 78. Most where using the hatch. Early in the 78 touring car season I seem to remember Parsons and Morris using the 4 door A9X. Even with the A9X debut in 77 at Sandown ...... Brock used a hatch.

Edited by LXSS350, 25 October 2011 - 12:29 PM.


#3 _cruiza_

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Posted 25 October 2011 - 01:19 PM

yes and yes
the race cars were kept and rebuilt and updated as the rules allowed so a L34 could be upgraded to A9X spec or at least was by some teams as for this particular car I have no idea.
as for Brock racing a 4 door when he came back to the Holden Dealer team he was given the old 4 door to race while Harvey had the flash new hatch, Brock won anyway and so went back to being number one driver and got a new hatch to race

#4 its Paul

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Posted 25 October 2011 - 03:23 PM

Thanks Cruiser & LXSS, but still am curious as to the history behind this torana, and the reason for the LH L34 front end. My gut feeling is its an L34 & not an A9X

#5 ReplicarSLR

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Posted 25 October 2011 - 03:40 PM

Seems to have the bigger A9X Sedan rear flares fitted to it not the L34 ones.

#6 _LXSS350_

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Posted 25 October 2011 - 05:52 PM

That car is a little obscure going by my old rusty memory. I am sure RED could clarify its history.

As far as I remember it wasn't raced by Brock in that form, back then if a car was damaged they would just grab whatever parts where around. So it could have been either an L34 updated (to A9X specs) or an early A9X that was damaged and got a LH nose cone. In those colours I would say it was raced in late 77 and probably the car used by OBrian/Harrop in the 77 Bathurst. I will have a look in some of my old books to see what I can find.

#7 myss427

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Posted 25 October 2011 - 06:24 PM

Well the front nose cone is late model, you can tell by the space above the indictors but it has old badging?

#8 _LXSS350_

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Posted 25 October 2011 - 06:37 PM

Its that badge that looks out of place. Where is RED when you need him. Going through my old records and photos to nail it down.

#9 its Paul

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Posted 25 October 2011 - 07:37 PM

This photo was taken early in 1978 Sandown, apparently he used this car for the first couple of races in 78 until his new HDT hatch was built, unknown if this is fact, just something I have read.

#10 _LXSS350_

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Posted 25 October 2011 - 08:08 PM

Doesn't ring true because the first race in 78 was Symmons Plains then on to Oran Park. Brock won both in a hatch (I have photo's). He was also in a hatch at Sandown but I think they had valve spring issues and got disqualified over the Alan cry baby Moffat protest about the 05 hatchbacks bodywork mods.

Edited by LXSS350, 25 October 2011 - 08:20 PM.


#11 slr5640

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Posted 25 October 2011 - 08:35 PM

Wanneroo 1978
John Harvey is driving it here #76
Pretty sure it's the same car
an L34 up to A9X specs


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Edited by slr5640, 25 October 2011 - 08:37 PM.


#12 _LXSS350_

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Posted 25 October 2011 - 09:16 PM

Nice find. Wannaroo was the fifth round in 78. The 05 hatch won the round with Harvey in second and the Garry Rogers hatch in third. It looks like its the car Harvey used at Wannaroo, but I am 98% sure Brock never raced it in that form.

Still cant reconcile the history of the actual car via photos or my racing records and script. I need to find another confirmation photo (with that strange LH torana badge) to be positive its the same car Harvey used. As mentioned in 1977 HDT had these colours on the OBrian/Harrop A9X 4 door which also could be this car. They played lots of swapsies and upgrade re-birthing, it gets hard to follow some cars history. None of this answers the original question.

Edited by LXSS350, 25 October 2011 - 09:25 PM.


#13 its Paul

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Posted 25 October 2011 - 09:39 PM

This is a sniplet that I had googled but still doesn't say if it was an L34 or not.

When he rejoined the HDT for 1978 under new team manager John Sheppard, Peter Brock had to re-earn his stripes. So while his teammate John Harvey was given the Team’s two-door A9X to drive in the non-championship touring car race at Sandown early in the season, Brock was given the well-raced four-door A9X from the previous season that Sheppard had inherited from retiring HDT manager Harry Firth.

http://www.autoweb.c...ewsarticle.html


#14 REDA9X

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Posted 25 October 2011 - 10:03 PM

Guys, I've covered this a lot in the past, and it's hard to cover without telling a complete history, but this particular shell is an odd one. BTW that pic at the start of the thread is the car today, not back in 78.
The car in question is an LX GMP&A shell bought in 77 to replace a damaged L34 shell then later upgraded to A9X specs. Brock raced it at the start of 78, Harvey raced it mid season. I'm sure if you do a search you will find the complete HDT history I wrote out.

#15 _LXSS350_

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Posted 25 October 2011 - 11:38 PM

Red its a strange one but that photo being today explains a few things. Who owns it now?


Strange thing is the 78 season was
Symmons Plains
Oran Park
Amaroo
Sandown
Wannaroo
Calder
Lakeside
Adelaide

Obviously that badge (on an LX) along with most of the others being hatch's makes it clear that "it is" the car that Harvey drove to second at Wannaroo.

What doesn't make sense is the comments that Brock raced a 4 door early in 78 as I have photo's taken by Bruce Smart of Brock's 05 getting the win and chequered flag at the first round at Symonds in 78 (he is clearly in a hatch).

He is also in other photo's (clearly in a Hatch) at the Amaroo round being shunted by Moffats fat fraud, race photos show he is in a hatch at the Sandown round, and was clearly in a hatch at Wannaroo.

What I can't verify is photos that Brock actually raced in that car in 78. (if so what round/s)

Ref:
Graham Howard/Stewart Wilsons - 30 years of the ATCC
Stewart Wilsons - Holden - Official Racing History
Bill Tuckeys - Great Race 60-89
Wheels Magazine - 1978

Edited by LXSS350, 25 October 2011 - 11:43 PM.


#16 ls2lxhatch

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Posted 26 October 2011 - 01:13 AM

This thread may fill in some gaps.
http://www.gmh-toran...6-rebrock-pics/

Harvey destroyed Brocks car at Amaroo so Brock drove Harveys car for a few rounds while Harvey drove the sedan Brock had driven at Sandown.


Edited by ls2lxhatch, 26 October 2011 - 01:15 AM.


#17 _LXSS350_

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Posted 26 October 2011 - 02:41 AM

That helps clarify what Red is saying. However it doesn't fit with my records for Sandown ( DSQ's where issued against Moffat,Bond,Brock )

Past the post was 1st Moffat, 2nd Geoghegan, 3rd Morris and 4th Brock.

MHDT put in a 14 point needle roller protest against Moffat and Bond. Moffat countered putting in a 16 point protest, but his was directly against Brocks 05 hatchback for irregularities related to bodywork modifications made to fit special suspension components (front sway bar mounts) on the 05 Hatchback that competed at Sandown in 1978. Photos in the books of Sandown clearly show 05 as a hatchback.

Edited by LXSS350, 26 October 2011 - 02:55 AM.


#18 its Paul

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Posted 26 October 2011 - 06:14 AM

From what I understand, brock raced it in 78 at sandown but it wasn't an ATCC round, I think it was called the Hangten round/series and was before the ATCC.

Thanks for that Red, that explains the LH nose cone. So the car is a GMPA re-shelled L34 up graded to A9X, and it is defiantly a GMPA shell not NASCO shell?

#19 its Paul

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Posted 26 October 2011 - 06:35 AM

I have copied this from the Auto web website, it also says who owns the car now, not a bad read.


The Victorian Historic Racing Register’s upcoming Sandown Historic race meeting from November 10-12 was to have been a very special occasion for Melbourne IT professional Chiomi Gendre.

It was there that Peter Brock was due to get behind the wheel of her car – the famous ‘05’ four-door Torana A9X in which he won his first race back with the Holden Dealer Team nearly 19 years ago at the same circuit.

“Peter had a special affection for this car,” said Chiomi, who together with her husband Tony Sawford run a brace of famous A9X Toranas in the growing Group C category for historic touring cars that raced in Australia from 1973-1984.

“He had a really good look at the car when we ran at Phillip Island earlier this year and asked if he could do a couple of laps in what was obviously an ‘old friend’ to him.

“But we wanted to have the car right for him first and so the date was set for Sandown, which was very appropriate because of his success in the car there.”

When he rejoined the HDT for 1978 under new team manager John Sheppard, Peter Brock had to re-earn his stripes. So while his teammate John Harvey was given the Team’s two-door A9X to drive in the non-championship touring car race at Sandown early in the season, Brock was given the well-raced four-door A9X from the previous season that Sheppard had inherited from retiring HDT manager Harry Firth.

It was a ‘test’ which Brock mastered in typical style, winning at Sandown first time back in HDT colours, proudly carrying his signature ‘05’ racing number.

A stellar year followed, in which he went on to win not only his second Australian Touring Car Championship, but also claim victory in the two major endurance races at Sandown and Bathurst.

When Chiomi Gendre and her husband both decided to go Group C motor racing around five years ago, they looked around for suitable historic touring cars.

Tony, a Melbourne power steering reconditioner, located the ex-Alan Grice Craven Mild two-door Torana A9X that the Sydney driver raced at Bathurst in 1978 and used throughout the 1979 season. It was still in its original racing condition when Tony began racing it two years ago and today he’s snapping at the heels of the Group C category leaders in historic races.

Chiomi’s first racing car proved to be a much more difficult project.

Following the 1978 season, the Brock A9X was sold and turned into a road car and remained in this state until nearly three years ago when Chiomi located and then bought it.

“While it still looked like it did in 1978 and still had the ‘05’ numbers on its doors, much of the racing equipment including the roll cage was gone,” she said. “We’ve spent a lot of time researching and rebuilding the car to the same specification as when Peter drove it and it has now been completed for just over a year.

“I’m just so sorry that Peter and the car won’t be reunited at Sandown. It would have been a special moment and that thought will be with us all meeting.”

To honour Peter Brock, a special memorial parade of some of his famous race cars will lead the Group C field on its warm-up lap around the circuit for its main race on Sunday. So while he won’t be at the wheel of his old Sandown winner, Chiomi and Tony will at least be in the same 'race'.

More than 300 historic racing, sports and touring cars have entered the Sandown meeting, which is sponsored by the VACC, Shannons, Tattersall’s and Wurth from November 10-12.

As well as a big grid of historic Group C and Group A touring cars, highlights of the meeting include the appearance of around 23 thundering Formula 5000 open wheeler V8 racing cars in a series of races, while off the circuit, an estimated 100 special cars from Brock Commodores and GT and GT HO Falcons will be the stars of the Shannons Show & Shine under the main grandstand.

#20 _LXSS350_

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Posted 26 October 2011 - 03:15 PM

Its a long time ago so my rusty memory needs a refresh. Its good that things are made clear, nobody who loves this stuff wants to spread untruths. Plenty of records have been found wanting, but its poor memories that can do the most damage.

Perhaps it was within some of the ACM series as most of the references that I have are to the ATCC and of course the Mountain.

Bathurst was a separate race.


ATCC was 8 rounds

Symmons Plains - 5/03
Oran Park - 26/03
Amaroo - 9/04
Sandown - 16/04
Wannaroo - 7/05
Calder - 28/05
Lakeside - 25/06
Adelaide - 8/08


ACM was 5 rounds

Oran Park - 30/07
Sandown - 10/09
Adelaide - 22/10
Surfers - 5/11
Calder - 2/12 - 3/12

#21 REDA9X

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Posted 26 October 2011 - 03:39 PM

There was an early race at sandown in 78. It wasn't a MANCHAMP or ATCC round. HDT only had the Harvey hatch and two sedans. One sedan was a shell that had been cut in half, one was an LX shell, this one is the LX shell.
I can tell you now when Chiomi bought the car it was plain white, I know because I used to see the car quite a bit and have photos of it. The guy who bought it from the wreckers though bought it still in the colours and had the photos of it when he picked it up.
On the protest side of things when Moffat finally got done for running roller rockers which was just one of the things he was known to be cheating with, he lodged a protest against HDT. Now here is how liberal and screwed up the rules of the day were. The rule said you could drill holes for the mounting of sway bays. Harry took this to the extreme when he built the Harvey hatch and cut holes in the splash guards to mount the front sway bay.
When John Sheppard took over in 78 he questioned this sway bar mounting with CAMS befoire the car was even raced in the 78 season. CAMS came back and said it was ok, yet when Moffat protested they were suspended for a round!
Funny thing is, who was cheif scrutineer in 78? None other than Harry Firth who also picked up HDT for having and over sized filler neck on the tank. Harry knew it was wrong because he built the car!

#22 _LXSS350_

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Posted 26 October 2011 - 04:35 PM

Bingo Red, a missing Sandown race. What was the date,distance etc?

That's why none of the text, photo's or my memory fitted Brock being in a sedan when he came back to MHDT. To me and the record books I had Symmons Plains on the 3rd March as the first race for 1978 in which Brock was in a Hatch.

I remember very well the stink (and crocodile tears) that Moffat put up over the rockers. He was like a child when he didn't win, all he ever did was jump up and down and cry foul. Moffat was just peeved that GMH had supported racing with its L34/A9X and thus given it the right to run durability components such as the rockers. Truth was many of these protests against MHDT where pathetic because we where not talking major changes. Moffat on the other hand wanted to make up his own rules.

As Shepard said after the break-in and stealing of MHDT components we know who did it but we still beat them on the track. When Ford where fully supporting racing we had the GTHO and IMO that was the major difference that really got up Moffats goat (hence why Fraud numbers dwindled). But the key was we had real cars that we could buy on Monday that had raced on the Sunday. That racing improved the cars we could buy, which is something that we now can now fully appreciate.

Don't cry Mr Moffat ......Go Torana Go. ....... LOL


Edited by LXSS350, 26 October 2011 - 04:46 PM.


#23 _ass308_

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Posted 27 October 2011 - 08:03 AM

hi paul
i dont know anything at all about this stuff.

i was curious though,and went through a book i have.thought u may be interested in these shots.this 4 door was at bathurst 78,driven by peter brock(not in the race),according to my book.

they look nearly the same to me,wheels are different,and number.

Posted Image
Posted Image
Posted Image
what do u think ?
cheers
chris

bugger upside down,ill see if i can fix it

#24 _LXSS350_

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Posted 27 October 2011 - 02:42 PM

LOL ..... Don't show that. Poor old Taxi drivers have a complex as it is without signwriting a big T on the door. :stirpot:

#25 its Paul

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Posted 27 October 2011 - 06:27 PM

Hi Chris, that looks like the No_ 76 car in the pic above.

What's the book called, wouldn't mind getting a copy.

LXSS, hahaha, I hear they use to use it to generate a little cash taking passengers up to the mountain in the HDT taxi, lol. :-)




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