Hey guys, seem to have a problem with my ignition switch... I have full custom wiring (painless kit) so nothing is standard, bar the actual switch...
Anyway the Start and On position work right... But the Accessories does not... It goes to accessories when I turn the key right back to the locked position..
Ok so I thought easy fix ive got my wires connected to the wrong pin, so pulled the switch off the column with the wires still connected... Turned the switch to lock and with a multimeter checked which terminal is getting power and yep sure enough its the one that my Accessories wire is connected to.
So I figure pull this wire off, move the switch to the Acc position then check which terminal is getting power and ill put my acc wire to that...
Problem is none of the terminals are getting power while the switch is in the Acc position???
So now im stumped...im actually about to pull the switch apart (and watch all the ball bearings fall out) and see if I can sus it out once I can see the contacts inside. But does anyone have any ideas?
Ignition Switch Issues (LH-LX)
Started by
_Viper_
, Dec 26 2011 07:23 PM
24 replies to this topic
#2
hanra
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Posted 26 December 2011 - 07:35 PM
#3
_Viper_
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Posted 26 December 2011 - 08:23 PM
Ok well seems I spent the last couple hours trying to fix something that wasn't broken?
Pulled the switch apart and it looks like its supposed to be as I described above, and that with the Key turned all that way back is infact not "lock" but "Acc" I assumed it would be like other cars and the order would go, Off/Lock -> Acc -> On -> Start, but it seems it is Acc/Lock -> Lock/Off -> Nothing -> On -> Start. Can someone with a Stock wiring confirm this is how there car is?
Anyway once I pulled the ignition switch this is what I found... The white-out marks on the black section on the left show where the contacts are on the bottom that would be touching the Terminals... I also drew a red line on the terminals to show where they would be too. The middle vertical terminal is power, so anytime a contact bridges the power terminal and another it gets power.
In order from the key turned all the way towards the driver to being turned all the way forward (clockwise)
Locked/Accessories
Only the accessory terminal has power
Locked/Off
Nothing has power but the Steering lock is activated
On
Accessories and Ignition have power
Start
Starter and Ignition have power, The 2 bottom terminals also get ground to the chassis... Looking at a wiring diagram these are connected to the water/oil senders and also a light on the dash.
And for anyone who wants to know which Spade Terminal is which...
So yea, all seems well. Just can someone confirm that that is also how their stock ignition works?
Pulled the switch apart and it looks like its supposed to be as I described above, and that with the Key turned all that way back is infact not "lock" but "Acc" I assumed it would be like other cars and the order would go, Off/Lock -> Acc -> On -> Start, but it seems it is Acc/Lock -> Lock/Off -> Nothing -> On -> Start. Can someone with a Stock wiring confirm this is how there car is?
Anyway once I pulled the ignition switch this is what I found... The white-out marks on the black section on the left show where the contacts are on the bottom that would be touching the Terminals... I also drew a red line on the terminals to show where they would be too. The middle vertical terminal is power, so anytime a contact bridges the power terminal and another it gets power.
In order from the key turned all the way towards the driver to being turned all the way forward (clockwise)
Locked/Accessories
Only the accessory terminal has power
Locked/Off
Nothing has power but the Steering lock is activated
On
Accessories and Ignition have power
Start
Starter and Ignition have power, The 2 bottom terminals also get ground to the chassis... Looking at a wiring diagram these are connected to the water/oil senders and also a light on the dash.
And for anyone who wants to know which Spade Terminal is which...
So yea, all seems well. Just can someone confirm that that is also how their stock ignition works?
#4
TerrA LX
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Posted 26 December 2011 - 08:27 PM
Adjust the position of the rod by loosening the screws on the steering column and moving the ignition switch till you get power in acc position then test the start position.
I have found it is best to test it with a test light and the starter solenoid wire disconnected.
FWIW use relays triggered off the ignition switch to prevent burning it out.
I have found it is best to test it with a test light and the starter solenoid wire disconnected.
FWIW use relays triggered off the ignition switch to prevent burning it out.
#5
TerrA LX
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Posted 26 December 2011 - 08:30 PM
Acc is all the way back, past lock...
#6
_torbirdie_
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Posted 26 December 2011 - 09:07 PM
Ok well seems I spent the last couple hours trying to fix something that wasn't broken?
Pulled the switch apart and it looks like its supposed to be as I described above, and that with the Key turned all that way back is infact not "lock" but "Acc" I assumed it would be like other cars and the order would go, Off/Lock -> Acc -> On -> Start, but it seems it is Acc/Lock -> Lock/Off -> Nothing -> On -> Start. Can someone with a Stock wiring confirm this is how there car is?
yep, that's the way it ought to be(Im still getting used to these new fangled cars where its like what you thought),
i think the accessories past lock is a better system, as one can be sure about exactly whether its in the on position or the accessory position.
Not sure, someone can confirm/disprove; the key could be removed in the accessories position, so you could leave people in the car and have em listen to the radio, but they couldnt turn the selector past the lock postion to start the car .....may have been just a worn lock on the particular car i had.
#7
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Posted 26 December 2011 - 09:38 PM
Not sure, someone can confirm/disprove; the key could be removed in the accessories position, so you could leave people in the car and have em listen to the radio, but they couldnt turn the selector past the lock postion to start the car .....may have been just a worn lock on the particular car i had.
Never been able to, and still can't, remove the key in the ACC position in my LJ.
AFAIK the LH & LX use the same ignition barrel and key as the LJ & HQ.
#8
_Viper_
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Posted 26 December 2011 - 10:52 PM
Cheers guys, Least I know I did it all right then 
#9
_Gunmetal LH_
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Posted 27 December 2011 - 12:07 AM
Check the resin gear behind the barrel that moves the rod to the switch hasn't skipped a tooth?
Had that on my Kingswood. Snapped off a tooth and engine would start and run but I lost indicators etc.
From memory it was a $7.00 part from Holden's.
Had that on my Kingswood. Snapped off a tooth and engine would start and run but I lost indicators etc.
From memory it was a $7.00 part from Holden's.
#10
_Viper_
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Posted 27 December 2011 - 12:17 AM
No all good... problem solved... well it wasn't even a problem in the first place
#11
View GaragePosted 27 December 2011 - 05:47 AM
That's correct on all vehicles I've had where the key can be removed (you also can't switch it back to accessory once switched off).Not sure, someone can confirm/disprove; the key could be removed in the accessories position, so you could leave people in the car and have em listen to the radio, but they couldnt turn the selector past the lock postion to start the car .....may have been just a worn lock on the particular car i had.
#12
EunUCh
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Posted 27 December 2011 - 09:36 PM
as^^
#13
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Posted 28 December 2011 - 08:22 AM
A bit of trivia but thought other owners might like to know.
The LJ Torana handbook, on page 23 states that the ignition key can only be removed in the 'lock' position.
So maybe GMH changed this feature for the LH and /or LX Torana so the key could be removed in both the 'lock' and 'acc' positions.
The LJ Torana handbook, on page 23 states that the ignition key can only be removed in the 'lock' position.
So maybe GMH changed this feature for the LH and /or LX Torana so the key could be removed in both the 'lock' and 'acc' positions.
#14
Posted 28 December 2011 - 10:57 AM
Some can have the key removed in any position, not sure if that's by design or the result of wear but it is handy at times.
#15
_sloper35_
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Posted 28 December 2011 - 12:31 PM
The LH owners manual does not say you can removed the key in the Acc pos. GM locks have been config. Acc.Lock. On. Start since the 1950s. My 57 Chev ign lock is the same as the FE FC FB EK etc. I think from memory the "Off" position was added for HK
#16
_torbirdie_
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Posted 28 December 2011 - 10:12 PM
Its worn, should = automatic fail on rwc test if key can be removed with engine running.That's correct on all vehicles I've had where the key can be removed (you also can't switch it back to accessory once switched off).
#17
_CHOPPER_
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Posted 28 December 2011 - 10:25 PM
Some can have the key removed in any position, not sure if that's by design or the result of wear but it is handy at times.
That's just 30 years of wear and tear.
#18
Dr Terry
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Posted 04 January 2012 - 11:27 AM
Hi Norm.The LH owners manual does not say you can removed the key in the Acc pos. GM locks have been config. Acc.Lock. On. Start since the 1950s. My 57 Chev ign lock is the same as the FE FC FB EK etc. I think from memory the "Off" position was added for HK
From my memory, the FE to EJ had Lock, OFF, ON & Start positions, where the only difference between Lock & OFF was that if you removed the key in the OFF position you could still start & drive the car. If it was in Lock, you needed a key to start the car.
The EH series was the 1st to have an ACC (accessory) position, so the order was now ACC, Lock, OFF, ON & Start. As before, the only difference between Lock & OFF was that if the key was removed in the lock position you couldn't start the car without the key. It remained like this until HG/LC.
When the HQ/LJ column switch was introduced the order remained the same, but the key could only be removed in the Lock position. Also now 'Lock' meant the steering was locked. In the OFF position it was electrically the same (all power off) but the steering was not locked. This remained until VL although in early 78 (HZ/UC) the barrel was altered so that the steering didn't lock until the key was actually removed.
Dr Terry
#19
_Darylle_
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Posted 18 March 2012 - 08:12 PM
Hi
The key should not be able to be removed in any position other than "lock" position. If the lock "guts" are'nt too worn you can take the best key to a locksmith who can "read" the cuts in the key and make a brand new one. I worked as a locksmith for some time and it worked on mine, however I reckon if you pulled hard enough she'd come out.
The key should not be able to be removed in any position other than "lock" position. If the lock "guts" are'nt too worn you can take the best key to a locksmith who can "read" the cuts in the key and make a brand new one. I worked as a locksmith for some time and it worked on mine, however I reckon if you pulled hard enough she'd come out.
#20
_Moose lc_
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Posted 18 March 2012 - 09:28 PM
Sorry I wasn't a member a couple of months earlier. I could have saved you pulling the whole thing apart lol. As for the key removal, I've owned a few old Holden's over the years and so has my dad, and to be honest I don't know of too many where the keys didn't just pull out. Even newish ones. I'm lead to believe that it is the weight of the extra keys that causes the accelerated wear in the key barrel. I try to have no more than the car needs on a key ring if I can, eg ignition/doors, boot if different and fuel cap if required. I have had and seen cars that didn't even need keys! You could, at worst, use a paddle pop stick and at best, just turn the lugs on the barrel. I don't think this is the best situation, obviously, but as was previously stated its just the years of wear and the nature of the beast.
Just my 2c
Moose
Just my 2c
Moose
#21
_Purple Dragon_
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Posted 18 May 2013 - 04:28 PM
I see you have installed a painless wiring kit. I have also been painfully installing one. The ignition plugs (clear and black) that came with the kit do not fit my ignition plug on the steering column. Following your photo with which spade does what, what did you do with your "earth on start" lugs?
#22
_Viper_
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Posted 20 May 2013 - 11:46 PM
From memory I didnt connect them to anything, not sure what they were used for standard? Ill double check next time im under the dash.
#23
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Posted 21 May 2013 - 12:09 AM
From memory I didnt connect them to anything, not sure what they were used for standard? Ill double check next time im under the dash.
AFAIK the earth terminals, only one of them actually, was used for the temp warning light test mode.
Vehicles with the combined instrument clusters (gauges) do not have anything connected to those terminals.
Note: LH/LX wiring harnesses have a green wire connected to the ign switch with a bullet connector up behind the instrument cluster but only the std warning light clusters connect to this wire.
#24
_Viper_
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Posted 21 May 2013 - 12:17 PM
Oh also purple dragon, I pulled my ignition switch plug from another Torana as yes the ones in the painless didnt suit, So I just repinned a standard torana one.
Also it was a LX Hatch that I pulled the plug from and it did have a wire on each of the earth terminals... I have pics at home ill post later.
#25
Dr Terry
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Posted 21 May 2013 - 04:39 PM
The later LX & UC series have a separate warning light for brake fail. This warning light has an earthing circuit just like the green temp light wire. That why the later cars have the 2 wires connected to these earth points at the ignition switch.
Dr Terry
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