46 replies to this topic

[Redzone]

It's not just a gmp&a shell, it's an ex group c car that one..

[A9X]

is that the ex wilson car or another ?

[REDA9X]

It's the ex Wilson car so yes it's a real GMP&A and it does have a race history. It wasn't raced much, but it did get the good gear.

[Tyre biter]

This might be a question which has been answered before, and please, I am genuinely interested as opposed to trying to stir up trouble - there is nothing sinister, nefarious or muck-raking going on with my enqiry.

 

Question: Is a GMP&A shell which is turned into a going concern considered an A9X?

 

If yes or no, is this merely a philosophical view, or is there a proper basis to whatever the position is on cars built from the same?  Essentially, what do those 'in the know' (clearly not me) rely upon when providing their reply?

 

Cheers, TB

[REDA9X]

Good question.

Firstly, GMP&A is something that was stamped into the label on all spare parts, General Motors Parts and Accessories.

When dealing with GMP&A shells, (we'll just deal with hatches) there are 3 types, a hatchback replacement shell, a Rolling A9X race shell, or a spare A9X race shell (body only).

So basically, you crashed your road car and it required reshelling you could get a replacement shell.

Race teams were sold rolling A9X race shells, and a spare batch of shells only were made available to race teams if they crashed one.

So the majority of race shells were bought by teams to race, so these would certainly be considered A9X's as thats what they were raced as and built to race as from the factory.

A few never made it to racing duties. Some of these were then made into road cars. I would still consider these to be an A9X of sorts as thats what the bodyshell left the factory as, plus rolling shells had pretty much everything a road going A9X had except they lacked a PSN or VIN.

Those replacement shells where shells alone, no suspension or hanging panels. If one had been made into a race car, then certainly it's an A9X, if it was made into a road car, then I would personally consider it an A9X if it had been put together with all the right parts.

What about a normal replacement shell bought and made into an A9X? I wouldn't consider it an A9X unless it had been used to replace a smashed A9X back in the day, or if it had been used to race in the day.

If a road going SS or SL hatch had been used by a race team (good example would be the Harvey HDT hatch), then that would also be considered an A9X.

[Tyre biter]

Thanks Red - very much appreciate your commentary.

 

I am wondering if there is or not a definitive 'tipping point' as to when one ceases to be an A9X and another becomes as much?  If we accept that shells are A9X's then to fit non-spec components to an A9X shell (rolling or bare) should make it no-less an A9X than we deem a modified but originally complete build A9X surely?

 

To explain: In the case of legitimate originally constructed/complete A9X's since altered - I assume that since these were going concerns when built they would remain A9X's regardless of their parts not aligning with those originally issued - correct?  Essentially I could put a late model LS engine and 6 speed gearbox into such an A9X and still claim it is as much - this makes sense - it is what it is regardless of what modifications I make.

 

However, what about those 'replacement shells' which you say; "if it was made into a road car, then I would personally consider it an A9X if it had been put together with all the right parts".

 

What is it when considering an A9X replacement shell with non-'right' parts nowadays - where does such a car stand in terms of A9X provenance or not?  It would seem it would not be an A9X if not having A9X spec components - a difference with built/complete A9X's.

 

This is incongruous IMO.  Make no mistake, I am not challenging you Red - merely kicking around a discussion to better understand and thereby depicting there is a minefield in this for which I am glad I have not been awarded the brief to discern if/when such a car qualifies or not as an A9X - a task well beyond my abilities. 

 

I would say, that in absence of spare A9X shells - such considerations would be easy - it was either made or not made as an A9X and therefore isn't or is as the case may be regardless of the components therein nowadays.  But when one can buy a car which rose from a bare A9X spec shell or a rolling A9X spec shell the whole thing becomes...well difficult to tie down it seems.

 

Again, genuinely interested in yours and others comments and opinions (expert) on this.  I also appreciate that perhaps a definitive position cannot be ascertained but rather it may well become an objective test as to whether a particular car is or is not an A9X and accordingly, opinions will differ.  If so, cest la vie!

 

Regards, TB

Edited by Tyre biter, 18 May 2013 - 09:09 PM.

[Tyre biter]

Who the frOck speaks like that.... Seriously?

Answer: Someone whom can communicate without relief or swearing as a crutch of expression/emotion.

 

Not that I am adverse to swearing - I am very much a proponent of the same - in the appropriate setting.

 

There is an old missive about intellect being aligned with vocabulary.  Can't say for sure because I have no direct knowledge, nor do I estimate that I have an elevated intellect.

 

I can however overlook your repetitive and nowadays entirely foreseeable (read: boring) use of the f-word to express yourself, and I do so without feeling the need to deride you unlike your inflated and self-serving belief as to the legitimacy of your commentary and barb.

 

Sorry to tell you this Adam, it is not humorous nor clever to use the replacement Frock/Frocking - that practice became tired back in (at least) 1985.

 

Additionally, it seems that rather than letting folks be as they are and accepting we are all part of this rich tapestry of life, necessarily different, you would rather beat yourself up by putting others down for conduct that breaches your opinion as opposed to a hard-and-fact established rule of social interaction.  

 

Remember Adam, opinions are like arse-holes, and your having such a thing is a long, long way from being more forthright than someone else's.

And so if your missive was to fire barbs at me for being different to you (as on the face of it, it was), then I say 'FFS grow up' - appreciate the hypocrisy in your commentary/opinion - you speak your mind regularly here - indeed it goes on, and on, and on - and you apparently have no concern with doing so loud and proud - as you do again, and again, and again.  And so to subsequently bitch about me speaking my mind and in my vernacular is not only weak but hypocritical of you, or should that (to use your entrenched prose) read; Frocking hypocritical? 

 

Cheers, TB

 

And PS: In the very least try the Macquarie - as in dictionary (if you have one less than 20 years old at hand) or even an atlas - both will assist to expand a narrow view (read: sheltered, self-effacing and introspective) outlook at best, and at worst; in the very least explain to you the true meaning of my repartee.

[A9X]

I was aboard till he last paragraph...

[Tyre biter]

Yeah, I guess you are right Welby.
I took the bait, I stooped and I shouldn't have.
And to be honest, I knew this when I wrote that last para.
Pious, self-effacing and mean spirited of me - my bad.
I apologise for that.
Cheers, TB

[REDA9X]

Give me a few hours to read and decipher.

[RallyRed]

this Black A9x / G Smelt / GMPA / etc etc thread has caused a whole lot of grief from its inception...maybe time to lock it?...or better still keep it going and see what happens next....ha..ha

[A9X]

Sorry, i lost interest early on..

Why does someone of such a superior intellect need to pen a blasted novel to make a simple point ?

Apologies if i offended you.

Nice response

Anyone keeping score ??

[lx308]

2 to 1. Advantage Skap, Welby.

I remember a similar discussion to this over GMP&A shells before I reckon. I think it might've been regarding the Street Machine giveaway hatch, but I haven't been able to find it.

[REDA9X]

This has strayed off subject, if we wish to discuss the new subject, start a new thread.

[Davis]

https://youtu.be/AqAvDpQXFAo