Jump to content


Photo

Torana power steering kits.


  • Please log in to reply
122 replies to this topic

#101 Toranamat69

Toranamat69

    Forum R&D Officer

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,841 posts
  • Location:Brisbane
  • Joined: 07-November 05

Posted 02 September 2016 - 05:57 PM

Great run down Lenny.

 

Those camber and castor settings were just achievable when I was using LX top control arms and I agree those setting are about as good as you can get these front ends without further mods.

 

I did still find 235 and 255 front tires still wore the outside edges a little more than the center but way better than standard Torana settings.

 

Matt



#102 devojr62

devojr62

    Forum Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 82 posts
  • Name:Brian Deveson
  • Location:Boonah
  • Car:77 LX SS
  • Joined: 03-December 11

Posted 02 September 2016 - 06:59 PM

Wish me luck with my local Tyre Power guy. Thank you for your help.

#103 axistr

axistr

    Forum Fixture

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 816 posts
  • Location:North west sydney
  • Joined: 19-November 05
Garage View Garage

Posted 04 September 2016 - 08:42 AM

Thanks Matt, just quickly touching on your tyre wear. Assuming you don't have any movement in the front end that would cause movement in the camber axis, If  your getting  wear on the inside and outside of one or both front tyres your problem is  most likely low tyre pressures. I have found that one steering angle will always override the other and cause wear on one side edge of the tyre that has the greater miss alignment. Otherwise the scrubbing will be across the whole of the tyre which shows up looking like even tyre wear.

 

Tyres loose on average two P.S.I per month.  Because our Torana;s tend to just sit in the shed most of the time It doesn't take long before our tyre pressure drop to the point that the tyres side walls flex to much during cornering and scrub the inner and out edges of the tyre or tyres on the front. It is rare to get front tyres to wear in the centre but very easy to do on the rear. 60% of the weight in on the front so we need more air pressure up front. I put 38psi in the front tyres and after a month or so they are at the correct pressure at 36psi for my driving conditions, and when I get a bit slack and don't pump them up for a while they get down to 32-34 being a fraction to low. So everything gets evened out. I try and set my tyre pressures once every 4-6 months. I tend to look at the front tyres for side wall bulging a bit at the bottom before each drive and if they look a bit low I throw a bit more wind in them.

 

We should all check our tyre pressures every month but who does, it like changing coolant and brake fluid every two years not many of us change them on time. One further note on tyre pressure is, for every one P.S.I the tyres are down on optimum recommended pressure it adds two degrees operating temperature to the tyre. At 80 degrees the tyre bands break down and the you get very funny looking tyre wear. It doesn't take long on a hot day for the tyres to get up to those figures and damage the tyres and many people blame the wheel alignment.    



#104 XY driver

XY driver

    Forum Participant

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 34 posts
  • Name:Tony
  • Location:Near enough to Adelaide
  • Car:XY ute
  • Joined: 03-November 16

Posted 04 November 2016 - 09:47 AM

G'day Lenny,

 

I've been lurking here for a while trying to learn what's what... normally an XY Ute uses up all my time but old mate has charged me with a complete and utter front end overhaul so finally his blown EFI alcohol 400 Chev will get something better than Torana brakes...!

 

I'm interested to know what the price and availability was on your very good power steering kits? Moreover can they be powered with an electric pump, as the car in question hasn't got much room on the front of the engine to sling a belt.

 

Thanks again for your effort, it's great to see people innovating on Aussie cars, making it work with local ingenuity, rather than just buying American crap.

 

Cheers

 

Tony



#105 XY driver

XY driver

    Forum Participant

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 34 posts
  • Name:Tony
  • Location:Near enough to Adelaide
  • Car:XY ute
  • Joined: 03-November 16

Posted 05 November 2016 - 02:38 PM

Hi Lenny,

 

Fist time poster and all that... I'd like to say thanks for your efforts. Reading through, it's obvious you turn out a great product at not inconsiderable inconvenience to yourself. Without blokes like you the enthusiast car world would be lost, so I figure congratulations are in order. It makes me proud to see some ingenuity applied to the local product rather than just more mail order american crap.

 

I'd just like to ask for an update, 3 things I guess, what're your racks worth these days? What's the availability like? Also can they be used with an electric pump? Mates of mine run offroad buggies, some of them are going to electric pumps for various reasons and if I was to get one onto old mate Bens Torana, we would struggle a bit, because he has a blower belt taking up all the space!

 

Cheers

 

Anthony



#106 axistr

axistr

    Forum Fixture

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 816 posts
  • Location:North west sydney
  • Joined: 19-November 05
Garage View Garage

Posted 06 November 2016 - 08:08 PM

G'day Tony, thanks for the feed back. More information can be found on this forum under the heading power steering kits, I started it as an update for members to save them time reading through so many pages on this thread, and contains all my direct contact details.  Firstly I would like to thank GMH-torana forum members for their support. To date I have now build and supplied to customers 130 power steering kits. I originally thought somewhere around 50-60 kits would be it, but the request for the kits have been slowly increasing over the past few years.

 

To answer you questions"

1) Power steering kits start at $2,695 and the most popular variable ratio power steering rack kits are priced at $2,995

2) I generally keep 3-4 rack kits on the shelf so we can supply a kit as soon as you are ready.

3) Yes we have had a few customers fit electric power steering pumps to supply the hydraulic pressure, Electric pumps from Mercedes c180, Holden Astra and Toyota MR2 have been used, Pressure around 900-1250 psi is recommended, just check on the current draw as I believe they can draw a fair amount of amps on initial start up and a decent alternator of around 85 amp would be required as a minimum.

 

Many thanks,

 

Lenny.



#107 N/A-PWR

N/A-PWR

    CABIN ENGINE CONTROLS GALORE

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 9,145 posts
  • Name:Dave I
  • Location:Wooroloo, 65km's East of Perth
  • Car:'1969' LC RAT TORANA
  • Joined: 08-December 12

Posted 06 November 2016 - 08:15 PM

Like Button for you Lenny,

 

 for great service to the GMH-Torana community :)



#108 chopper

chopper

    Forum Participant

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 5 posts
  • Name:Mic
  • Location:Perth WA
  • Car:Torana LX
  • Joined: 18-December 16

Posted 31 December 2016 - 06:28 AM

hello out there i am looking at changing my steering to power steering for my LX torrie does anyone have any suggestions as i have search around and a bit confused on what to do as regards to kits.



#109 Cook

Cook

    Forum Fixture

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 590 posts
  • Location:Melbourne
  • Car:LX Hatch
  • Joined: 27-February 15

Posted 31 December 2016 - 03:57 PM

Chopper,

 

Read Lenny's post (axistr)  three up from here.  He is the man that makes them and if you read through this thread you will see that he obviously does an excellent job and quite helpful. Cheers

 

Ron



#110 Vick

Vick

    Grumpy old man

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,189 posts
  • Name:Vick
  • Location:Vic
  • Joined: 19-November 12

Posted 31 December 2016 - 08:02 PM

Just a heads up chopper, there used to be a tyre guru who used the name CHOPPER on these forums. So don't be surprised if you get confused with him.



#111 Punchy

Punchy

    Forum Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 168 posts
  • Name:Scott McCulloch
  • Location:Brisbane, Southside
  • Car:77' Lx Hatch
  • Joined: 17-May 09

Posted 30 December 2017 - 01:14 PM

HI Lenny and team.

 

I'm still in the throws of sorting things with my old girl and I've finally got it on the road.

I thought i'd review the really shit sensation I was getting back through the steering and well its the rack, The sector shaft has rusted. Looks like the seal died a few moons ago and waters got in to corrode the worm gear.

While i'd love to splash out and do a power steering conversion now.. I cant afford it. However if I replaced the sector shaft for my lx I could get by for the short term.

 

With all these conversions happening can anyone spot me a rack at the right price or could Lenny let me know if parts are still available for standard racks.

 

Id rather be out driving my girl instead of looking at broken bits.

 

 

 

Attached Files



#112 axistr

axistr

    Forum Fixture

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 816 posts
  • Location:North west sydney
  • Joined: 19-November 05
Garage View Garage

Posted 31 December 2017 - 07:44 PM

G'day Scott, I haven't done up any manual racks for over ten years and don't have any parts new or used for them anymore. All the rack enquiries I get these days are for power racks. If your on a budget hopefully someone on here may have an old rack that they have removed when going to power steering. However I do have a standard ratio power steering kit in stock $2,695.00 which are over $250 cheaper than the popular variable ratio kit if your budget can stretch that far.

 

Just as a note to anyone interested in the standard ratio kits, once this rack kit has been sold I wont stock standard ratio kits anymore and will be a special order only. (8 weeks for delivery minimum) Everyone wants the variable ratio kits these days and is pointless having them sitting on the shelf taking up space and expense.       



#113 axistr

axistr

    Forum Fixture

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 816 posts
  • Location:North west sydney
  • Joined: 19-November 05
Garage View Garage

Posted 04 August 2018 - 05:30 PM

If anyone is wanting to look at a power steering kit I will throw one in the back of the hatch for the all Holden day at Clarendon tomorrow. I will be parked with the Sydney Torana club.

 

Lenny.



#114 hainzy

hainzy

    Forum Fixture

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 502 posts
  • Location:BALLARAT
  • Joined: 16-April 07

Posted 19 September 2018 - 07:45 PM

Just been reading through all your threads Lenny. Looks like you do a fantastic job. Im definitey keen to grab one off you in the next 6 months sometime. Just gotta prioritise a few other bits and pieces first with other cars.

 

Ive go an LX with UC UCAs, UC steering arms, and a UPC big brake kit. Power steering would really finish that front end off nicely!!

 

Will be in touch. Cheers.



#115 axistr

axistr

    Forum Fixture

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 816 posts
  • Location:North west sydney
  • Joined: 19-November 05
Garage View Garage

Posted 20 September 2018 - 06:24 AM

G'day hainzy, if I can help in any way just let me know and I will do my best to ensure you get the best possible results.

#116 axistr

axistr

    Forum Fixture

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 816 posts
  • Location:North west sydney
  • Joined: 19-November 05
Garage View Garage

Posted 23 October 2018 - 06:52 PM

Over the past twelve months I have had increasing interest and conversations with owners wanting to go electric power steering pumps to supply the hydraulic pressure for the power steering conversion. Most of the information I have received have been from conversations and some of has not been correct or maybe overestimated. So today I decided to do a bit more research myself and went down to the local wreckers and removed an electric pump from a Holden Astra 2005 model series AH-46.

 

The pump only cost me $67.00 and I had to remove it myself. On the way home I called into my local hydraulic supplies shop and purchased a couple of hoses, fittings and 4lts of Dextron 3. The cost of that exercise, just over $200.00. Next I put a rack kit on my setup K-frame, hooked up the hoses, pressure gauge on the supply hose and used a car battery to power the system. The system bleed very easy in less than 30 seconds. On full lock I got the pressure relief to kick in and recorded 1,150 psi on the pressure gauge. The system operated well but my electrical meter only has a maximum of 10amps so I am going to purchase a new amp meter tomorrow so I can more accurately give everyone a good indication of how many amps on run and full load this systems draws.

 

I also weighed the pump which included full of oil, the supply and return hoses each 1 mere long, 5kg exactly. I haven't managed to track down a wiring diagram yet so not sure how every wire was powered up when in the Astra. So I will try and find out that information also 

 

 Attached File  DSC_00282921.JPG   157.93K   1 downloads

 

Attached File  DSC_00302920.JPG   145.74K   3 downloads 



Dont know what happened to some of the script but will correct when I have some current draw figures to post.



#117 dattoman

dattoman

    Do I feel lucky? Well, do ya, punk?

  • Administrators
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 15,530 posts
  • Name:Neil
  • Location:Perth Western Australia
  • Car:LX SS , LH sedan, 76 Cadillac , 3 x dattos
  • Joined: 04-February 07

Posted 23 October 2018 - 10:04 PM

Tiny runs the same pump in his HQ with std power box

I think this is a good idea for those that don't want the added accessory drive on the front of the motor



#118 Rockoz

Rockoz

    Lotsa Posts!

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,698 posts
  • Name:Rob
  • Location:Sanctuary Point
  • Joined: 21-September 08

Posted 24 October 2018 - 07:54 AM

Lenny

 

Jaycar have an AC/DC clamp meter that is rated to 400A I think for DC

Just open the jaws, place over one of the wires and away you go.

When I bought mine a few years ago it was around the 80 buck mark.

Its cheap and reliable.

I also have a Fluke AC only clamp meter, and I have checked its readings against that, and it is accurate.

 

Its a good little investment for playing with auto electrics, and wont break the bank like the bigger name items

 

Cheers

 

Rob



#119 axistr

axistr

    Forum Fixture

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 816 posts
  • Location:North west sydney
  • Joined: 19-November 05
Garage View Garage

Posted 24 October 2018 - 05:44 PM

Thanks for the heads up Rob. I managed to pick one up as you have discribed from jcar today. Luckily on special for $99.00
I did a quick test today and the current draw was much less than expected. I will do a more comprehensive test tomorrow and post up some test results.

#120 axistr

axistr

    Forum Fixture

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 816 posts
  • Location:North west sydney
  • Joined: 19-November 05
Garage View Garage

Posted 25 October 2018 - 02:11 PM

Ok here are some findings. Firstly I am told the early Astra's run a different pump to the one I have tested. The early electric pumps were made by ZF and were very heavy (cast steel body), I estimate double the weight to the aluminium body version I have which is made by TRW. The time taken for the pump to wind up to full speed and pressure is 19 seconds. The pump then drops back to a constant run speed in total 22 seconds to complete the start up cycle. Although you could probably have enough hydraulic assistance to move the car out of the shed in around 10-12 seconds, but if its turn the wheel to full lock with your foot on the brakes then your going to need around 18 seconds.

 

I have also been told that the ZF version draws a lot of amps but its not the case with this TRW unit. It starts up very slow and its not until the 4 second mark you can actually hear it whizzing away. During this stage the pump only draws 1.98-2.3 amps. I seen a peak of 5 amps then hold steady at 1.97 Under partial load the amp reading registered around 5 amps and at full load approximatly 16 amps. Although I did see a peak of 24 amps when cold. The racks are happy to run around 900-1,000 psi but can take 1,500 and still give good assistance with a low pressure of 750 psi.

 

The pump supplied a hydraulic pressure of 1,150 psi cold (pressure relief) and after I operated it for 20 minutes the pump produced a touch over 1,000 psi. I probably should have used the special synthetic oil but it seamed to run fine on Dextron 3.

 

As for the wiring there are 5 wires in total main positive

 

12v supply, 8mm wire

Negative/GND

And three small wires approximately 1.5mm

 

I put the three small wires to the positive battery terminal to get it to work. I haven't been able to source a wiring diagram to suss out the connections. However I think one would goes to the alternator indicator light circuit so it only allows the pump to start up once the engine is running, this allows the starter motor and ignition to get full voltage on cranking. A second wire may go to some speed sensor device not sure and the third I haven't got a F**king clue without finding a wiring diagram. Anyway it works fine on the bench. I don't know how many km this pump has done and the car I remove it from looked a bit worse for ware. I must say it draws much less electrical power than I was expecting or the meter I have isn't reading correct.

 

Conclusion,

 

If you are struggling to find room for a belt driven pump or you have a special setup that doesn't allow for an extra accessory drive than this pump might be a good alternative. Its very basic to install and can be mounted almost anywhere so long as you have access to check and top up the fluid. It could be mounted down the back somewhere but you would need to be mindful of pressure and voltage drops over long distances. If you have a lot of electrical power hungry equipment in your car I would recommend running a 85 amp alternator as a minimum. It all ads up, especially when driving at night and an A/C going the extra couple of amps might be enough to take the edge of the battery on the next start.

 

They can be picked up relatively cheap, the hoses and fitting cost three times the price of the second hand pump but the hoses and fittings for a belt driven pump would cost the same. The pump didn't heat up much during the time spent testing so maybe they don't require any additional cooling assistance(oil cooler) in the system when worked hard example, (track work).  One last thing you would want to retain the rubber mounts if using this pump as they do get a bit of noise happening when they are operating load or no load. Probably wouldn't hear it over the exhaust on a average V8 Torana running if mounted correctly.

 

I get comments from owners saying they cant put a belt drive pump in their Torana, I get that and there are cases where this pump could be the way to go. But don't write of the belt driven pumps. Both my cars have A/C and power steer and driven by serpentine belts, nice and quiet, no belt slip and no need to constantly adjust v-belts, and very reliable. I don't have a lot of space around the front of my engines but with a bit of thinking its not that hard to get it all to work.

 

Do I have a preference ? nope I'm not going to get into that debate. 

 

Attached File  DSC_00362923.JPG   77.07K   0 downloadsAttached File  DSC_00342925.JPG   100.89K   0 downloadsAttached File  DSC_00352924.JPG   92.11K   1 downloads 

 

   

     

Attached Files



#121 purrlx

purrlx

    Forum Fixture

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,066 posts
  • Name:Danny
  • Location:Gladstone
  • Car:LX hatch
  • Joined: 23-December 11
Garage View Garage

Posted 25 October 2018 - 06:27 PM

Nice work again. Another option for the old girls.



#122 Rockoz

Rockoz

    Lotsa Posts!

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,698 posts
  • Name:Rob
  • Location:Sanctuary Point
  • Joined: 21-September 08

Posted 26 October 2018 - 07:42 AM

As long as the wire you are testing is within the clamp area, and the ends of the clamp closed off, and DC selected, the readings will be accurate.

That is a newer model than the ones I have bought previously.

I have checked mine against FLUKE units, and bench tested with known resistances, and the readings have always been accurate.



#123 axistr

axistr

    Forum Fixture

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 816 posts
  • Location:North west sydney
  • Joined: 19-November 05
Garage View Garage

Posted 26 October 2018 - 01:59 PM

Yeah Rob the first thing I double checked was the correct meter settings, its just that I was amazed that this unit didn't draw as much power as I was expecting and had to do a double take to make sure I wasn't doing something wrong. I was told by others they can draw 25-35 amps running and 70 amps on start up. Maybe those reading were for the earlier ZF units, don't know. The TRW unit running at operating speed and no load was less than 2 amps. That's only around 28 watts, less than one headlight on low beam or a bit more than one stop light globe.

 

The whole point of this exercise was to get the correct information and hands on experience with a system that maybe suitable, and pass this correct information on to anyone wanting to go down the option road of electric power steering pumps. I have also been told that some late electric power steering pumps use can bus to alter the fluid pressure and flow, they probably wouldn't be suitable due to the extra electronics needed to get the system to work correctly. I am not interested in buying ten different pump and test them all for flow, pressure and current draw.  So there you have it, if you want to go an electric pump then the TRW pump as used in the Holden Astra will do the job. I am not sure how many production years they fitted them but from what I have found on the internet 2000-2006 seem to be all the same. The one I tested was from a 2005 AH-46 Astra.      






0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users