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Torana power steering kits.


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#126 axistr

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Posted 23 July 2019 - 05:17 PM

Change in contact details,

 

The N.B.N have been around and stuffed around with our telephone lines and system, and we no longer have a fixed phone line. The only people that usually rang us on this number was telemarketing people that couldn't speek english and my mother inlaw. So we have decided not to continue with the fixed line service.

 

So please dont try and ring or fax me on the 0245799782 number anymore. Sorry to anyone that has tried to contact me on this number recently.

 

Current contact details.

 

Axis Truck Repairs Pty.Ltd

163 Stannix Park Rd

Wilberforce N,S,W 2756

 

Ph: 0417678066

 

Thanks Lenny. 



#127 56 Early

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Posted 03 January 2020 - 08:16 PM

G'Day Lenny,

 

Just read through all your P/S posts and congrats on a fantastic development of the kit.  I'm not here to hijack the thread but I have three questions related to UC Torana steering that I realised you could answer very easily if you wouldn't mind.  I have a UC rack on a Mitsubishi L300 front end in mt FJ Holden but I suspect the original rack body has been shortened which is giving me some grief.  Modified by previous owner but not to my satisfaction.

 

Questions are:

1.  What is the center to center measurement of the rack mounting bolts on the UC K Frame?

2.  What is rack travel lock to lock on a standard UC rack?

3.  What is the measurement from the centreline of the top to  bottom ball joint to the center of the taper on a UC or LX steering arm.  I realise they will be slightly different but either measurement will do.

 

I have been trying to get the measurements for some time but it's not east to source these things on these older vehicles.

 

Thanks in advance.

 

Geoff


Edited by 56 Early, 03 January 2020 - 08:16 PM.


#128 axistr

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Posted 05 January 2020 - 05:58 PM

G'day Geoff,

 

To answer your questions, which are approximates and can very depending on models, combinations and different alignment settings.

 

1) 433mm.

2)118mm

3) If I am understanding the question correctly your after the measurement for a correct toe out on turns comparison, and not the height of the steering arm from the lower ball joint.  LH = 0,  LX are outboard of the ball joint centres but not by much. I don't have any LX arms here at the moment to measure for you. UC are further outboard again than LX, from memory which isn't as good as it use to be, approximatly 13mm.

 

Hope the above helps,

 

Regards,

 

Lenny. 



#129 axistr

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Posted 29 November 2020 - 04:27 PM

G'day forum members, over the past few months there has been a sharp increase for power steering kits. It seems many owners have been out in the shed working on their Torana during  these stupid times of covid lockdown. For the first time since I have been building power steering conversion kits I have had to start on back orders. For the past ten years I have been able to keep stock on the shelf. January & June generally are the busy months. Currently orders are at 2-3 weeks lead time. 

 

House keeping,

 

I generally like to talk to owners to ensure the Torana they intend on fitting power steering to has the correct components for good handling. There are a few miss conceptions out there about what the best components to use are. 

 

1) In my opinion the best setup is LH,LX, UC stub axles with UC steering arms and UC upper control arms. 1" lower springs and medium compression shock setting with quality shocks and ant roll bar front and rear.  If the top inner control arm are mounted in lower holes then Camber gain can be increased for slightly better handling and front tyre ware. I hope that's clear and straight forward. Standard LX setup isn't bad, but not as good as UC. LH really could do with better steering arms to get a better suspension travel curve, try and source some UC steering arms if possible.

 

The UC upper control arms allow for increased Caster setting due to the top ball joint position being mounted further rearward in the arm. Higher positive caster is desirable with manual or power steering steering, it gives the car a more weighted and planted on the road feeling, only down side is with manual racks makes the car heavy to steer. But that's why your probably look in this thread anyway because your over wrestling your car at slow speeds.

 

I consider using  HT-HG HQ-WB stubs on a Torana a step backwards. Yes you will get a lower roll centre, but the king pin inclination is two degrees different than LH-UC & A9X and in most cases you will not be able to wheel align the extra 2 degrees of unwanted negative camber out. Moreover the steering geometry scrub radius is also effected. If you do have HQ stubs and want to retain them the A9X steering arms must be used and that means going Harrop steering because no one is going to part with their original A9X steering arms these days.  Harrop arms are now $500 per set.

 

I had a customer bring to me a competitors power conversion rack kit three weeks ago which I had time to do a few simple geometry check on. I don't like knocking other company's but I feel like I should warn of my finding. I have known for some time just going by pictures that their kits couldn't meet the basic geometry needed for the Torana conversion, but its worse than first thought. I will add my finding soon. I am not going to post it for my own gain only to advise Torana owners what the differences are. Moderators please advise me if you do not want me to post these findings

 

Cheers Lenny.      



#130 dattoman

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Posted 30 November 2020 - 08:29 AM

Yes... we want to know



#131 axistr

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Posted 01 December 2020 - 01:51 PM

As mentioned in my previous post I had a call from a fellow Torana owner asking for advice on poor car handling. After a brief discussion he advised me that he had fitted a power steering kit from another company. His complaint was when the car was driven on uneven or bumpy roads the car darted left or right and at times move across half a lane in the blink of an eye. He advised me of the rack brand he fitted, but I thought it may have been more likely a problem with the car.  I asked him had it been wheel aligned properly ? he added he had it aligned after the kit was fitted and read out all the alignment setting. (seem to in spec). I advised him to double check the front end for movement, bushes, bearings, bent or misaligned components and if tightness in any components was noticed. He double checked everything with a fine tooth comb but no faults were found.

 

After more discussions and part number checks on front end components, it was found that HQ stubs and steering arms were fitted to this car. I advised that the steering arms were not compatible with the Torana geometry and the differences between A9X & HQ stub axles. The owner decided to purchase Harrop steering arms first and hopefully somewhat resolve some of the bump steer that I thought the owner might have been experiencing. 

 

From the photos I have seen of this competitors rack I knew that it wouldn't have a very good bump steer curve, but the feed back I was getting from this owner lead me to think it may have been more of a problem in the car itself. After fitting the Harrop steering arms the owner reported that although he noticed a slight improvement, the car was still a pig to steer. The frustrated owner decided to purchase a power steering kit off me. I was a bit concerned that if he fitted one of my rack there might have still been an underlying problem with the car. ( I haven't seen or driven this car).

 

In the next conversation with the owner he asked could I have a look at the other rack and set it up to steer better, as he decided he could fit it to his other Torana as it was to be sold in the near future, and fit my rack on his favorite hatch.

The owner took the two hour drive to my place with the complete competitors kit now removed from his car. In the fitting instructions supplied in this oppositions rack kit it states that its a direct fit to the K-frame no mods needed.

 

My findings. 

 

1) Although the fitting instructions stated no mods needed to the car it also said "minor removal of material may need to be removed from the drivers side engine mount plate on some cars."  To get this rack to fit to any Torana a large amount of metal needs to be removed. Basically the entire metal plate that is welded to the K-frame which the input shaft of the rack passes through needs to be removed. Strength of the K-frame is reduced in this area in doing so. (not a good practice).

 

2) During my initial geometry checks before and during development of my conversion kit, I was very surprised by how much change in toe out on turns and induced bump steer change there was when the rack was positioned away from the original manual rack position. There is a sweet spot but I managed to improve on the original setup/geometry. When I did the check on this competitors kit I was shocked by how far the rack sits forward of the K-frame. And it got worse, the rack was also sitting way to low. When at ride height the rack end bars had a steep upward angle to the steering arm tie rod ends.

 

When viewed from the side the rack end bars pointed back towards the steering arms 1 1/2". It doesn't matter what ride height you have you will never fix this issue. To get this rack to fit on a Torana they have made the rack mount sit to low and way to far forward. The rack is just not suitable for a Torana conversion.

 

3) The supplied outer tie rod ends have Nylock nuts to retain them. I assume this is due to the fit not being correct in the Torana steering arms. When I checked the contact in the tie rod studs they were only half engaged in the original steering arm tapper. By using Nyloc nuts you don't have to worry about lining up with a castle nut and split pin hole. Maybe I am old but I still like to see a secure split pin to ensure the castle nut is tight and hasn't loosened. You don't get that with a Nyloc nut which are known and do move from time to time.  I do not see Nyloc nuts to be as safe as a castle nut and split pin, that's why most manufactures still use the old tried and tested split pins. 

 

4) I don't like aluminum used in hydraulic cylinders, yes aluminum is lighter but will suffer from ware and scratches in the bore very early in it is life cycle, and its a re sleeve or throw away. There are a few other things that don't impress me with this kit but I have only focused on the major issues. 

 

 

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Summery,

 

As they say you only get what you pay for, but this kit is $500.00 more than my kit, so your not getting what your paying for in my opinion. The bump steer curve is of major concern to the point of being dangerous given the right conditions. I always say to people that it should be more about better handling with the added bonus of being easier to steer. Unfortunately the only feature of this rack is lighter to steer. I would think the people that put this kit together didn't have a basic understanding of steering geometry and its effects. Its also obviously this rack was suited to other vehicle conversions, but the same rack fitted to a Torana just will not give good steering and handling. 

 

The feed back from the owner after fitting my rack was positive. He called me after fitting my kit and said it was a different car to drive and much better than the original manual rack and light years over the other brand, The car hadn't been wheel aligned yet but the owner said he car handled brilliant over any road surface or condition.

 

There is a second aftermarket kit now available which is $500.00 cheaper than mine, but going by the photos it will suffer with the same problems as the rack kit I tested. Both of these racks are just to big with incorrect dimensions to successfully  fit to a Torana without cutting away most of the front of the K-frame. And that will cause so many issues to the fitter and engineering people. 

 

I am not writing this post to promote my kits. I posted to better inform buyers of the pit falls. I know when my kits are fitted to a standard Torana they are a direct bolt on, no mucking around, no mods needed to the car. The only time I have the occasional call from owners is due to so many modification over the years. I try to keep on top of any areas of concern and the uni coupling I released recently was to allow for customers that require more clearance around extractors. I commonly see 1 7/8 extractors in engine bays these days, room in a Torana has always been at a premium in the engine bay.

 

I always ask the owner to send me there steering arms to ensure a perfect fit. I know for some owners it can be a bit of a hassle getting them off and sending them, but I think is a small price to pay to ensure a straight forward installation. Many of these arms are now over forty years old , i regally find arms they need squaring up. Around 65% of the arms I check need reaming or a quick clean up. 

 

Happy driving,

 

Regards Lenny. 



#132 axistr

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Posted 02 December 2020 - 05:09 PM

I found another angle of the tested power rack the customer sent me. Top view Ha Ha, wow maybe Stevie wonder was at the head of the development team. It really pisses me off when company's put this shit out to the market. Its all about money. To the untrained eye you probably think what's the big deal. But to anyone that has even a very basic knowledge of steering would shudder when they see this rack end angle. And this is with the longer steering arms, with the shorter LH arms this angle would ring alarm bells. its no wonder the owner wasn't happy with the way it steered. 

 

 

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#133 DanWA

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Posted 08 December 2020 - 03:44 PM

That is very well documented with detail Lenny

 

Have you ever had one of your kits fitted to a car with a Rodshop LS1 Kit and Hopper Stoppers yet?

 

Cheers

Dan



#134 axistr

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Posted 08 December 2020 - 06:57 PM

Hi Dan,

 

Yes the LS conversion is very common these days. Over the past four years its been so common that every second rack kit I now supply seems to be for a LS engine conversion. The compact universal type steering column adaptor I recently developed was a result of clearance issues with both LS and Holden engines with large extractors.

 

Exhausts.

 

Eight years ago 1 5/8" extractors were the norm, now 1 7/8" are the most common. There have been more than a few customers that have told me they were using CRS kits lately. It seems that some kits are a bit hit and miss, some people fit this kit and have no problems, than the next customer have some clearance issues. Its not just CRS, I cant believe how much differences between extractors there is out there. Extractors from the same manufacturer for the same engine type in the same car can have 1" difference between the position of primary pipes. I use jigs to set up my brackets before welding to ensure they are all the same. I fit the finished rack assembly on my K-frame to ensure they remain uniform. I know when they go out they will not have clearance or fitting issues. On the rare occasion I do get a call I know that some one has either modified the K-frame or its bent.

 

Engine mounts.

 

Most people I talk to are using Tuff mounts. I believe the early mounts had the same offset on both sides. Of late the mounts have now been offset to the left, so you need to check if the mounts are marked between sides. I haven't personally carried out a LS conversion in a Torana so I am going on what customers have told me. The Tuff mounts are compact but in my opinion they transmit more harmonics through to the chassis. If I was converting to a LS engine I would probably fabricate some mounts myself using the commodore insulators to go onto the original Torana K-frame steel engine mounts. I have seen it done. Going this way you can position the engine in the perfect position. The engineering rules state 10mm clearance between any moving components. Although its probably easy for me, I have all the gear to make most parts, and the guy at home just wants to buy the parts and bolt them in. The problem is unless the parts you buy have been manufactured to a uniform standard any variation can cause issues. Most of these conversion kits are low volume and hand built so it really depends how good a day the guy making them is having.

 

Sumps.

 

I think CRS are using Holley manufactured sumps. They seem to fit reasonably well. Some customers have told me they had to remove a tiny piece of casting to gain that little extra clearance in some areas.

 

Power steering pump.

 

I would just use the original Saginaw pump used in the commodore. Serpentine belt drive and belt tensioner, its compact and if your engine doesn't already have the pump mounted they would be easy and cheap to pick up from the local wreckers.

 

Which ever way you go a V8 in a Torana is a tight fit. I little bit of extra thinking some times can easily overcome what appears to be a big problem. I estimate there to be around fifty Toranas out there with my power steering kit fitted.

 

Hope the above helps.

 

Cheers Lenny.    



#135 axistr

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Posted 08 December 2020 - 07:19 PM

Sorry Dan forgot to mention the brakes. I haven't had anyone have problems with fitting Hoppers kits with my power steering. If there is an issue it would be the same with the either the original manual or power steering rack. The outer tie rod ends are in the same position.

 

I am in the middle of making a small trial batch of brake kits for Toranas. I have sent patterns to be laser cut for the caliper mounts. The kits will have 298mm rotors with new two piston calipers and stainless steel brake hoses. It will be a full bolt on kit with everything new ready to bolt on. The calipers will be front mounted so there will be no need to change the stubs from side to side, and no cutting or grinding parts to clear control arms or K-frame. I can drill the rotors and hubs to Torana, HQ or commodore stub pattern. The customer can choose an upgrade style of rotor if desired, drilled, slotted or both. Due to these silly times suppliers have no new disc calipers available until February. I have placed an order for calipers to start building kits early next year. You can view the brake kit in my "up dating the Hatch" thread in member builds. 



#136 Rockoz

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Posted 09 December 2020 - 09:27 AM

I got a set of universal Tuff Mounts for Tojo The Toyota Tilt Tray Tow Truck.

They are marked left and right and are slightly offset as you say.

I needed to modify them, as I have had to do with just about everything, to fit them.

I removed the offset. Not sure why they are made that way.

 

Cheers

 

Rob



#137 nz454

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Posted 24 December 2020 - 07:47 AM

Hi, has anyone mounted an astra power steer pump in the boot of a torana? With 3.5m aprox of hose is the loss of pressure/flow noticeable. I agree the the best spot is just behind the drivers headlight but i have not spoken to an engineer regarding cutting a 110mm hole in this area being a structural problem.
Thanks Zane

#138 dattoman

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Posted 24 December 2020 - 08:45 AM

Tiny has one in the boot of his HQ



#139 yel327

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Posted 24 December 2020 - 09:17 AM

I bought one to use in my HK (you can buy a whole Astra for $200). However when I bought the serpentine belt setup it was $100 extra for it to come with a new Saginaw style pump and it is far neater. I was going to mount it on the driver’s side with hoses straight down to the rack like battery cables on the other side. Was going to get a cover fabricated for it.

#140 nz454

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Posted 24 December 2020 - 01:47 PM

Hi, is tiny happy with the pump in the boot? No lag while driving?. I am also looking at mounting a saginaw 2 pump off the drivers side head,just means i have to shift the alternator and make up some custom brackets. A lot more work than boot mounting an electric pump, but i only want to do this once.cheers

#141 dattoman

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Posted 24 December 2020 - 04:49 PM

No issues I am aware of

But they need to be wired properly



#142 Lima31

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Posted 24 December 2020 - 05:13 PM

I fitted one off a custom bracket, yes there is a specific way to wire them
edit: it made the steering too light ... so fitted a heidts regulator
301fb6a3376c2fd9dcb5be643f74f6b0.jpg

Edited by Lima31, 24 December 2020 - 05:14 PM.


#143 nz454

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Posted 24 December 2020 - 07:27 PM

Hi, thanks for the replies. Im stuck with doing something on the drivers side or the boot. Factory fan and shroud dont make it easier but im happy with these so its either astra pump in the boot or saginaw mounted on drivers side. What type of rack are you running? Cheers

Attached Files


Edited by nz454, 24 December 2020 - 07:29 PM.


#144 yel327

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Posted 24 December 2020 - 08:48 PM

What’s stopping you using a HQ-VK bracket and pump? They go on the pulley behind the alternator and water pump pulley on HQ-WB. The brackets are easy to find and you can buy the spacers and bolts repro. They bolt onto any HQ to VSIII head too.

Or you could talk to these guys and see if they have anything to fit a pump like they do on a long nose SBC (like a HT-HQ):
https://wheelswithin...tion-water-pump

Edited by yel327, 24 December 2020 - 08:49 PM.


#145 yel327

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Posted 24 December 2020 - 09:11 PM

These guys have some interesting stuff too:
http://reidspeed.com.au/shop

#146 nz454

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Posted 26 December 2020 - 05:02 AM

Hi,some nice stuff on these websites, prob telling you guys nothing new but the torana chasis rail stops you using a hq factory bracket on the drivers side and the throttle body/air intake makes life a bit hard on the passengers side. I will make custom brackets if i have to, but if i can run the astra pump i would like to try this first. Another problem i have found with the astra pump is that my rack use dexron3 and the pump uses ldas synthetic,cheers

#147 axistr

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Posted 26 December 2020 - 11:39 AM

G'day Zane, My Torana is running  a 304 A/C & P/S. I managed to modify the original VR alternator bracket (very easy) and fitted SBC serpentine pulleys which bolted up, only crank pulley needed drilling to suit Holden four hole (SBC has three) harmonic balancer. I used a new Saginaw type 2 pump from a BA Falcon 6cyl. see attached photos.

 

I have had a few customers fitting Astra pumps in the boot and none have reported any issues. I use a Astra pump to pressure test my racks after assembly. I have use Dextron 3 in the pump for the past few years without a problem.

 

 

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#148 nz454

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Posted 26 December 2020 - 04:36 PM

Hi Lenny, thanks for the photos, looks like a tonne of good work gone on there.I do like the serpentine set up and may go that way. I can see how you modified the alternator bracket,is the power steer pump fixed and the belt tensioned with an idler? I already have the battery in the boot so if the astra pump has been working for your customers I think I will try that first,thanks Zane

#149 axistr

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Posted 02 January 2021 - 09:47 AM

Over the past twelve months my daughter has been telling me I should make a Facebook business site. I must admit I'm not a wiz when it comes doing much more than the basics on the keyboard. When Tracey was over earlier in the week she decided to build the Facebook business site for me. Hopefully I can operate it with my basic computer skills. So anyone looking for more information and updates and would prefer to do it on Facebook please follow the link below.

 

@axistoranapowersteering

 

Cheers Lenny.



#150 UCgazman

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Posted 02 January 2021 - 01:29 PM

Facebook sites are pretty easy Lenny, I manage the one at my work - its a good way to reach out to potential customers (for free!). Post lots of pics, people always like to see what you're up to ;)






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