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Torana power steering kits.


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#151 VINESY

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Posted 17 February 2021 - 04:34 PM

I overcome the problem with the EFI engines by fitting a type 2 Sagnal pump to the right head and modifying the original VS air conditioner bracket to suit the new style compressor. The water pump serpentine pully has more grip than it looks in the photo, very hard to try and turn by hand.

 

 

attachicon.giflhpump.jpg

 

 

Hi axistr, 

 

Will a set up like this work on a 1992 5lt? Vp SS edition. 

 

I have pwr steering, a/c and alternator that I need to run and would prefer a better belt setup. But not gilmer.



#152 axistr

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Posted 18 February 2021 - 08:32 AM

G'day Nathan, yes any Holden V8. Its only a matter of deciding what you want and design a system to suit. I wanted to run a serpentine belt because I'm not a fan of V belts, they need adjusting regularly, not as quiet in operation, generally have less grip and not as compact compared to serpentine belts. 

 

The engine that I bought had no accessories drive pulleys, power steering pump or compressor so I could start with a clean slate. It was easier than I first thought to convert. Its not hard with a little bit of thinking. I had to mount the power steering pump on the right or it would fowl with the throttle body. A new Ford BA 6cyl Saginaw type 2 pump was cheap and a good starting point so it was an obvious choice. It all come together reasonably easy. My engine was from a VR Clubsport. Astra electric pumps are getting very common these days due as the pump can be mounted just about anywhere and doesn't interfere with the accessories drive system. I still like the look of a mechanical pump in the engine bay.

 

Cheers Lenny.  



#153 nz454

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Posted 06 March 2021 - 08:17 PM

Hi, this is how I did mine in the end. The pump and reservoir are vz-vf commodore, its a custom pulley and bracket with a stock crank pulley. Cheers Zane

Attached Files



#154 axistr

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Posted 18 September 2021 - 03:42 PM

Torana camber/caster adjustment.

 

This is something I have been meaning to post for a while but hang back till I had more feed back from customers. Fitting offset front suspension bushes. Its nothing new and has been done before. I'm a real fuss pot when it comes to wheel alignments, I have seen so many so called experts that reckon they know how to align everything from push bikes to road trains, but in reality I ask a couple of simple questions and quickly realize push bikes are probably beyond them.

 

I get quite a few call from customers in relation to the best camber and caster setting for their Torana. This of course is a double sided question. It depends on the intended driving conditions for example, circuit racing, Targa racing, drag racing, street cruising, outback touring, very high cambered roads and sloppy verses stiff suspension setup. The alignment should be tailored to suit the majority of the cars usage. I will concentrate on street as it would cover the majority of users on here.

 

Camber drivers side: zero -1/4 degree negative.

     "        pass     "    : 1/4 - 1/2      "           "

 

Caster drivers side: 1- 5 degrees positive (even between sides)

Caster  Pass     "        "       "            "            "           "          "

 

Toe: at ride height 1.5mm to 3mm total toe in.

 

Thrust angle (diff thrust angle) zero thrust - 1mm per meter down hill (left)

 

Ok with my preferred setting out of the way the common question I get asked " is 3 or 4 degrees of negative camber ok". NO it will wear out the insides of both front tyres premature. This also reduces the tyre foot print on the road reducing traction in all but very high speed cornering and that is almost impossible on the street through every corner. So the wheel alignment guy putts way to much toe in to compensate for to much negative camber, then your car scrubs the tyres across the whole tread so it looks like they are wearing better, but you only get 5k - 10k out of the front tyres, twitchier steering and toe in on turns. Not good.

 

Its hard to get good caster and camber setting on the Torana at the best of times with the original setup and components. I have touched on the use of HQ stub axles a few times and the difference in king pin inclination causing excessive negative cambers. The KPI angle also effects the scrub radius which is not ideal. Over the past forty odd years many cars have been involved in accidents, driven over millions of large pot holes and probably the odd sheep dip, cattle grids and off road adventures. This can cause twisting, bending and cracking of the k-frames. I have seen my fair share of K-frames  top towers that have come closer together and pulled the rails in with it, not easy to see by eye. 

 

Fitting offset bushes to the lower front of front control arms can solve the majority of alignment problems. 

 

Bush kit Whitline No: W52491 

 

 

         Attached File  DSC_01492125.JPG   98.81K   3 downloads

 

When fitting these bushes (one offset bush per side to the front of the front lower control arms) the camber and caster range can be greatly increased. I have been advised by customers that have fitted these bush kits they achieved a decrease of 3 degrees camber and at the same time increased caster between 4 1/2 - 6 degrees positive caster. Most of the camber/caster adjustment can be simply achieved by turning the eccentric bush bolt using a spanner. (much quicker and easier than top control arm shims). You also have further adjustment on the top control arms by using the original shims. I would recommend removing all the top control arms shims  as this will reduce some of the negative camber first allowing for more positive caster which is a plus with power steering. Positive caster gives a more weighted feeling, generally better handling and improved camber gain in cornering. The bush offset in most cases will be offset towards the engine dragging the lower control arm ball joint position forward (more positive caster) and inward (reducing negative camber).   

 

By adding more positive caster this causes a more forward lower ball joint position moving the tyre forward increasing the gap between the firewall and tyre, generally a plus for a Torana with bigger wheels and tyres. Although front flares to tyre gap will be reduced. Shimming the rear of the front top control arm mount will further increase positive caster so you can max out the adjustment of the bushes and trim up even caster between sides if necessary at the same time setting finer cambers if still required. It seam so far everyone has be able to achieve good alignment settings with these bushes and have commented how it improved the handling. The big benefit of power steering is the increased positive caster and still being able to steer it with ease. With a manual rack and 6 degrees of positive caster even with Popeye arms you would probably tear the steering column out quickly.

 

I hope this will help those with alignment issues. Just make sure your alignment guy is up to speed on basic alignment knowledge. I still get phone calls from alignment companies that can't work out why cars pull left or right and didn't know caster/camber or thrust angles effected pulls.

 

Happy motoring,

 

Lenny.          

 

 



#155 Peter UC

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Posted 20 September 2021 - 01:40 PM

Thanks for sharing that Lenny, definitely an interesting idea. I actually don't know how you would get 6° of caster without these bushes while keeping the tyres out of the firewall.

I find it interesting your comments on negative camber as that has definitely not been my experience. I have around -1.4° camber and 3.3° of caster with 2mm of toe in and have a very nice wear pattern.

Any less camber and I end up just chopping the outer edge badly i.e. the outer edge just gets rounded off, maybe I'm more aggressive on the way into corners than the usual Torana driver :dontknow: .



#156 LXCHEV

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Posted 20 September 2021 - 02:20 PM

Awesome post, cheers Lenny.

 

I wonder if those offset bushes would help out my LX. I've been running -3 degrees of camber for 20 years now (HQ stubs - old school conversion), but I think because I only run cheese-cutters on the front (15 x 4's), I've gotten away with it. Car steers/handles awesome and doesn't wear the tyres out (super low km car though). It'd be nice to pull it back though a degree or two.



#157 76lxhatch

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Posted 20 September 2021 - 02:37 PM

I made my own offset bushings by turning down some old Commodore IRS offset crush tubes and boring out some nice Superpro poly bushings to suit. Gets me around +6.5 degrees caster without compromising camber, and moving the wheel forward as mentioned is great for clearance. I don't see how you'd get anywhere near this with only shim adjustment, about the best I ever managed was somewhere around +3.5 I think?

 

I only run around -0.6 degrees caster which seems to work well coupled with the higher caster and low profile tyres, they actually wear quite evenly despite some spirited driving. Personally I think the camber has to suit the tyres, mine are relatively low profile (255/40/17) but if I had softer and/or taller sidewalls (e.g. a 14" or 15" wheel) I'd probably add some more negative camber. You also need more to make it handle if you don't have much caster.



#158 axistr

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Posted 20 September 2021 - 06:03 PM

Thanks for sharing that Lenny, definitely an interesting idea. I actually don't know how you would get 6° of caster without these bushes while keeping the tyres out of the firewall.

I find it interesting your comments on negative camber as that has definitely not been my experience. I have around -1.4° camber and 3.3° of caster with 2mm of toe in and have a very nice wear pattern.

Any less camber and I end up just chopping the outer edge badly i.e. the outer edge just gets rounded off, maybe I'm more aggressive on the way into corners than the usual Torana driver :dontknow: .

 

Peter the settings are defiantly for the average cruise car and those figures are static, if the car is on an alignment machine and you sit in the drivers seat I would expect to see around 1/2- 3/4 degree camber change. Stiffer suspension less change. If your are a bit aggressive then you could run an extra 1/2 deg more negative camber. I always check toe when pushing out both front tryes (approximately 10kg of pressure by hands) and set the toe in to zero -1mm toe in to simulate the drag of the tyres on the road.

 

Also if your car is experiencing toe in on turns rather than toe out this maybe why your car could be wearing outsides of the tyres with low cambers. Bent stubs or steering arms can cause this. Checking KPI and toe on turns using an alignment machine generally shows this problem. If your thrust angle (diff to chassis angle) is a bit out this can effect tyre wear. Hi horsepower and engine torque can cause outside drivers tyre ware also. To get the perfect tyre ware a good alignment guy generally looks at the big picture and fine tunes the alignment to suit. 

 

I have never got less than 80k out of a set of tyres in any vehicle I have ever owned. Current work ute has 83,000km on the tyres and they have 60% to run. It makes a big difference if you get the alignment perfect and keep up with correct tyre pressures. You would be surprised how much better the car will handle and drive.   






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