65 replies to this topic

[Shtstr]

Found out something i have never heard before on Suday at the north coast street machine show.
I will now ask all the Torana people out there a question and see what you all think.

Is a 2 door lc lj torana and a 2 door lx uc torana a coupe or a tudor????

I just about fell over when told my lc gtr was in the tudor class for judgeing as all 2 door torana's are classed in tudor not coupe..

What are your thoughts.

Mine is that it is a coupe and it even states that on the rego lable.

[Bazza]

Hi

See below;

Cheers

Bazza

Attached Files

•  LX Coupe.jpg   65.05K   4 downloads
•  LC 2 Door.jpg   70.83K   3 downloads

[StephenSLR]

They used to class all 2 doors as coupés (pronounced coopays) and you'd have to pay extra in rego fees, these days it's either a hardtop or convertible on the rego papers.

Tudor is a Ford name and Skoda have taken it on recently.

The organisers mean to say 2 door but are probably trying to be hip by using a classic term.

s

[Dr Terry]

This subject has come up several times in the past & has caused a lot of unnecessary angst.

There are many different definitions of a coupe, depending on where you live.

However, I believe the best definition is that a coupe is a 2-door sedan, based on a 4-door, but using a different roofline.

GM-H seem to agree with this because they have always referred to 2-door HB/LC/LJ/TA cars as '2-door sedans', but 2-door HK-HX & LX/UC as 2-door coupes.

Let's face it, the main differences between a 2- & a 4-door sedan in LC/LJ are the doors, side glass & rear quarter panels. The roof panel & rear screen are the same.

Have a look at some of the Chevs from the 50s & 60s, some years had 6 or 8 different body styles all in one series. Some will have a 4-door sedan, a 2-door sedan, a 4-door hardtop, a 2-door hardtop, a 2-door coupe & a 2-door convertible, plus 2 & 4-door wagons etc. etc.

At one time GM-H was thinking of producing an LC/LJ coupe, I have a pic of it, strangely badged 'Barina', but it didn't get pass the design/concept stage.

Dr Terry

[StephenSLR]

Though, to confuse things even further, there are many hardtop/pillarless two- and four-door sedans.

Not to mention cabriolets, notchbacks and company terms like fastback, sportsroof, etc.

s

[Shtstr]

From what i was told a coupe is a car with no b pillar, and a tudor is any 2 door car with a b pillar.
Go figger that one out..
And as far as i'm concerned it is a FORD name and should stay as such,

PLEASE DON"T DOWN GRADE MY HOLDEN TO THAT LEVEL

[yel327]

Hence I suppose if we took this definition as gospell Toranas would all be two doors and HK/T/G/Q and LE Monaros would be coupes.

Forgot one: HJ Monaro!
(I know it is picky, but a HX LE isn't actually a Monaro).

Back on track, what is a V2 or VZ CV6 or CV8? I guess it is the same as whatever an LC or LJ is?

[Dr Terry]

Back on track, what is a V2 or VZ CV6 or CV8? I guess it is the same as whatever an LC or LJ is?

No Byron, I don't believe the B-pillar thing matters for a coupe.

V2 & VZ Monaros are 2-door coupes, but they have a B-pillar, but so what, their roofline is not that of the 4-sedan equivalent. Look at a TX/TC/TD Gemini 2-door it is a coupe, but it has a B-pillar.

Look at an LX hatchback, it's a coupe yet again it also has a B-pillar.

Dr Terry.

[dattoman]

Its all Henry Ford fault ( he was illiterate)
Cause he couldn't spell... so two door became tudor

[a9x868]

as far as LX go it,s a hatch or a taxi

[yel327]

No Byron, I don't believe the B-pillar thing matters for a coupe.

V2 & VZ Monaros are 2-door coupes, but they have a B-pillar, but so what, their roofline is not that of the 4-sedan equivalent. Look at a TX/TC/TD Gemini 2-door it is a coupe, but it has a B-pillar.

Look at an LX hatchback, it's a coupe yet again it also has a B-pillar.

Dr Terry.

Probably correct. In the '55-'57 Chevs, didn't they call the 2 door with a B pillar a 2 door sedan, and the 2 door with no B-pillar a coupe? Or did that simply happen because they had both and had to call them something?

I just looked at some GMH literature, they refer to the Gemini as sedan and coupe. But they specifically use the word Hatchback for the Torana and Sunbird, yet use coupe on the ADR plate (although they also put Torana here on Sunbirds so not sure this is that reliable). Other areas it is called a Torana or Sunbird Hatchback Coupe.
They also use the word coupe utility on HQ-WB ute ADR plates.

So I think you are right, coupe just means 2 doors with a variation in roofline, hence HK-HJ Monaro, HX LE, LX-UC hatchbacks and HQ-WB utes are all coupes (or coupe utiiity) whereas LC-LJ are 2 door sedans. Cool, learn something new everyday! I don't think i've ever looked at a HG ute's ADR plate to see if it states coupe utility on it like HQ-WB.

[StephenSLR]

But they specifically use the word Hatchback for the Torana and Sunbird

Well it does have a hatch door.

The Ford Lasers were referred to as 3 door or 5 door models in their brochures, perhaps they should have called them Thridors and Fyvdors.

s

[yel327]

FydorsSeveats. The modern day SUV!

[Dr Terry]

The term 'coupe utility' has an interesting history & I believe it applies to Aussie Holden utes since the FX.

When Ford's Lew Bandt designed & built the world's first 'ute' in 1934 (in Australia), what distinguished it from other pick-ups (before & since) was the fact that the tray & car body were all one. Other pick-ups like Hi-Ace, F-100, Triton, AU/BA Falcon etc. etc. have the tray as a separate removable part.

So whether it was called a coupe utility because of this feature or just that the roofline differs from the sedan, I don't know.

Dr Terry

[Dr Terry]

Another point is that some coupes had 4 doors just to confuse people.

There is a 3 litre coupe version of the Rover P5 (late 1960s) which has a different roofline to the sedan version, but still has 4 doors.

Dr Terry

[Shtstr]

the roof of a 2 door lc lj is differnt to a 4 door as the front doors are differnt lengths so b pillar is in differnt place.
Besides i thought this would cause a stir and get bites and it has hahaha.
I couldn't care less what they want to call my 2 door gtr as long as they don't call it a ford lol

[StephenSLR]

Other pick-ups like Hi-Ace, F-100, Triton, AU/BA Falcon etc. etc. have the tray as a separate removable part.

Yep, pick-ups are more truck than car, with the early models Ford would send the chassis over to Aus. and local body builders would customise the rear end, either turning it into a tray or building it into a van of sorts to suit the profession of the owner.

s

Edited by StephenSLR, 15 January 2013 - 06:36 PM.

[S pack]

the roof of a 2 door lc lj is differnt to a 4 door as the front doors are differnt lengths so b pillar is in differnt place.
Besides i thought this would cause a stir and get bites and it has hahaha.
I couldn't care less what they want to call my 2 door gtr as long as they don't call it a ford lol

Dave, the roof panel is identical for 2 & 4 door LC'LJ. The B pillar is not part of the roof, it is part of the structure below the roof.
Look at the silhouette of a 2dr and 4dr, they are same.

[Shtstr]

so it's a sed then hahaha

[dattoman]

Thats been done Skap
Theres even a thread on it here someone might be able to find