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Camshaft change, performance difference


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#1 _rb3torana_

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Posted 26 July 2014 - 02:28 PM

I'm just starting this thread for people's past experiences when changing a cam and have either made for HP or faster at the track. EG going from a 250@50 cam to a 265@50 cam. Did the car ET/MPH faster? Or any other experiences with changing anything with a cam eg LSA, lift. Obviously it doesnt mean just because it worked for one doesnt mean it will work all though. Cheers



#2 N/A-PWR

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Posted 26 July 2014 - 04:49 PM

Hi RB,

 

Just to start this up,

 

I had a 30/70 Competition Cam in a 208ci Red Motor, which is a great Medium Cam ( 3100rpm to 7500rpm ),

 

now, that cam had great power ( Cracked a block between 3 and 4 pots ),

 

but did a lobe in later on, I mean it went round in shape,

 

so that valve didn't work anymore, and funny enough, I didn't notice it until later.

 

 

Change to a 41/78 cam x 1/2" lift, and it did the same rev range ( 3100 to 7500rpm ) strange,

 

and the power was much better in Torque, where I could push a 2.78:1 diff easy.

 

 

Next cam is going to be a 51/79 ( hoping for 3100 to 8500rpm ),

 

and I also found that, the same cam in a smaller Cubic Inch motor, the rpm band was 1000rpm less.



MPH Limit was when you take your foot off the pedal



Never did a Drag Race, where we had our own Pits to change and Test, be good to know but.



#3 _STRAIGHTLINEMICK_

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Posted 26 July 2014 - 04:58 PM

G'day mate , what was the LSA on both cams .



#4 N/A-PWR

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Posted 26 July 2014 - 05:09 PM

Hi Mick,

 

I have no idea on the 30/70, as I threw it,

 

but I still have the 41/79 here,

 

so how do I measure the LSA, I could work it out by doing some research,

 

but the Cam is still in my Lathe Chuck, waiting for me to do the lobe lift chart of it for Oldjohnno, sorry. fainting-smiley_zps2f730098.gif

 

G'day mate , what was the LSA on both cams .



#5 N/A-PWR

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Posted 26 July 2014 - 05:31 PM

Just done it:-

 

camshaft_diagram.jpg

https://www.google.c...406445619692857

 

 

It, is about 107 Degrees, as I still have the Cam in the Chuck, with the Degrees around the Chuck,

 

and is a regrind too:-

 

Attached File  IMG_5691.JPG   42.21K   4 downloads


Edited by GASPOWER, 26 July 2014 - 05:36 PM.


#6 _J.A.W._

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Posted 26 July 2014 - 06:22 PM

There are plenty of variables too,

Like timing advance/retard, lifter type, rocker ratio, valve size/spring/comp ratio & all the inter-related spark/carburation/extractor type parameters.



#7 EunUCh

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Posted 26 July 2014 - 06:45 PM

Not exactly relevant..but when the cam decided to go into 3 pieces in the shit box starfire i got a new solid grind that was close to 

the original hyd.specs, and it is a better cam by far in terms of drivability and top end rpm but when tested on "dyno hill" the top end speed was a bit down.

That could be due to a better profile needing bigger chokes to work with the profile..not sure but things change.



#8 _rb3torana_

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Posted 26 July 2014 - 08:25 PM

We know theres tons of variables but sometimes any info can help lol. I personally retarded a cam 4 degrees from where it was and gained 2-3mph in a 308 torana. Cheers



#9 N/A-PWR

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Posted 26 July 2014 - 08:33 PM

Spot on RB,

 

Just changing the Cam, and reusing the same engine parts as before, is the best test.



#10 _J.A.W._

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Posted 26 July 2014 - 08:47 PM

True, but with all the "I personally retarded" types who cant leave well enough alone or do one change only & test it... ..its unlikely....



#11 _Bomber Watson_

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Posted 26 July 2014 - 08:51 PM

Finally, he speaks from some actual experience...



#12 N/A-PWR

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Posted 26 July 2014 - 08:53 PM

Hi James,

 

All I did normally, was change the short motor,

 

the other bits all went back in,

 

it was only when the cam wore out was when I change that,

 

the New Engine will have a beast of a cam this time,

 

but still all the parts will be the same,

 

except for the Head, it is going to be shaved more, with new valve/guides etc.



#13 _J.A.W._

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Posted 26 July 2014 - 08:55 PM

Yes, & esp' since twin cam set-ups allow for subtle manipulation of sophistications vis 'a vis  inlet VS exhaust timings..

 

You do have an Irving/Waggot DOHC right?


Edited by J.A.W., 26 July 2014 - 08:56 PM.


#14 _rb3torana_

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Posted 26 July 2014 - 10:46 PM

Well with that particular car, it started of with 8.5:1 compression and ran 13.0@103mph, I upped the compression to 9.8:1 but fitting flat tops and it ran 12.8@105 then I retarded the cam and it ran 12.5@108mph. Thats one change at a time isnt it?



#15 N/A-PWR

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Posted 26 July 2014 - 10:50 PM

Sure is RB,

 

and you sure did get real good results to keep persevering. 

 

Thats one change at a time isnt it?



#16 _J.A.W._

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Posted 27 July 2014 - 07:38 AM

RB3 - Those 1/4 mile times are fairly impressive, so good effort - no stock/near stock  308 Holden goes nearly that quick.



#17 _rb3torana_

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Posted 27 July 2014 - 08:30 AM

Nah it had a 288 crane, torker copy, 650dp and ported big valve heads. It went ok for what it was. Cheers



#18 _STRAIGHTLINEMICK_

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Posted 27 July 2014 - 09:58 PM

Just done it:-

 

camshaft_diagram.jpg

https://www.google.c...406445619692857

 

 

It, is about 107 Degrees, as I still have the Cam in the Chuck, with the Degrees around the Chuck,

 

and is a regrind too:-

 

attachicon.gifIMG_5691.JPG

 

Beauty mate , the 107 lsa plus where it was dialled in is what made the the 41 79 behave like that .The 30 70 more than likley had a 110-112 lsa .The tighter lsa will make it idle rougher ,have a bit less low end torque ,bring the topend power down by around 500rpm .Basicly it will make the engine punchier over a tighter rev range than the wider lsa cam.



#19 N/A-PWR

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Posted 27 July 2014 - 10:15 PM

Great thank's for that Mick,

 

Just worked out, that the Tighes Cam ( 51/79 - 310 Duration - [email protected]) has a LSA of 104 degrees,

 

and an installed Centre line of 104 degrees for both Inlet (ATDC) and Exhaust (BTDC). 



by the sounds, nice and lumpy



#20 _STRAIGHTLINEMICK_

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Posted 28 July 2014 - 10:20 PM

Great thank's for that Mick,

 

Just worked out, that the Tighes Cam ( 51/79 - 310 Duration - [email protected]) has a LSA of 104 degrees,

 

and an installed Centre line of 104 degrees for both Inlet (ATDC) and Exhaust (BTDC). 



by the sounds, nice and lumpy

 

I think it'll be very lumpy , that timing and 104 lsa will make it pretty cranky ,hope u can live with her.



#21 N/A-PWR

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Posted 28 July 2014 - 10:39 PM

We have lived with worse hey,

 

thank's for the fun and Your Experience Mick.

 

I think it'll be very lumpy , that timing and 104 lsa will make it pretty cranky ,hope u can live with her.



Cannot have a Mild RAT



#22 _sunburst73-xu1_

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Posted 31 July 2014 - 07:08 PM

Sorry to go slightly left field but can anyone suggest a good cam for a Turbo red 6?

 

Cheers Dane



#23 _Bomber Watson_

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Posted 31 July 2014 - 07:33 PM

How turbo'd? 35666 seems to be a good go to point for mild engines.

 

BAsically the way i would do it is look at what RPM your engine should be on full boost during and pick a cam to suit.

 

Cheers. 



#24 _sunburst73-xu1_

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Posted 31 July 2014 - 07:58 PM

How turbo'd? 35666 seems to be a good go to point for mild engines.

 

BAsically the way i would do it is look at what RPM your engine should be on full boost during and pick a cam to suit.

 

Cheers. 

 

Basically my set up in the 4 door Bomber.

 

179HP,202 crank, heavy ported 9 port head that is open chambered and cc'd to 63cc. Basic draw through stratta 2 style set up with a 2 inch SU.

 

Its only running I reckon about 6 to 6 and half to 1 comp ratio, the cam is a little unknown but know its based on a 202 GTR cam with 112 LSA and about 430 value lift.

 

Plan is in a month or 2 is to pull it out to fix a rear main leak and while its out I want to lift the comp up to around 7.8/8 to 1, fit some high beam rods and forge pistons.

 

And look at maybe a better cam.

 

I want to try and reach the ultimate goal of 300 rear wheel horses and more torque but am a long way away from it and may not be achieved with my set up.

 

Currently its at around 240 to 250 WRHP with about 600 NM torque.

 

Again sorry to get slightly off topic.

 

cheers


Edited by sunburst73-xu1, 31 July 2014 - 07:59 PM.


#25 _Bomber Watson_

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Posted 31 July 2014 - 08:07 PM

THe strata 2 is your holdback really. 

But you will be able to get it more driveable with a nicer cam. 

 

More comp will certainly help as well. 

 

I"d look at the 35666, then call a few cam grinders around the way and give them the above details, as well as vehicle weight, transmission, diff gears, tyre size etc, and see what they recommend. 

 

Most of the lads doing it for a living know more than i do. Im just using the 35666 as a basic reference, Crow certainly isnt the best with cams but that particular one is a reasonable looking profile, and has performed well in one engine i used it in (aspirated, though). 

 

Cheers. 






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