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Vp Commy No Spark


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#1 v6 torana

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Posted 29 October 2014 - 06:09 PM

Dear Commodore Experts I am trying to help a friend out with a problem with her Vp Commodore that has a mind of its own regarding no start (no spark).

 

Here is what I know:

 

A few weeks ago the car would crank over but wouldnt start (no spark), carried out all the usual checks:

 

Earths

Relays

DFI plate earth

Ignition switch / key

Security system

DFI connector

TP

IAC

Oil pressure switch

Leads

Plugs

3 x Coils

Battery

Alternator

Wiring Harness CAS TO DFI

Crank Angle Sensor  3 & 18 signals present (new DELPHI CAS fitted a few months ago)

Swapped another ECU

 

I replaced the DFI with an old one and it started (the failed Delphi DFI/coil pack was only 14 months old).

 

After a few weeks the same problem has returned (no spark - confirmed with a timing light). Sometimes the car will start and run but once it is turned off it wont start. You can leave it for a few hours and the bloody thing will start !!!

 

Any ideas ??? I am leaning towards another DFI failure.

 

Thanks

 

Peter

 

 

 

 

 



#2 purrlx

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Posted 29 October 2014 - 06:20 PM

Sounds like CAS to me same symptom my old commy had



#3 TerrA LX

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Posted 29 October 2014 - 06:24 PM

It's getting hard to obtain reliable aftermarket electronic parts.
Try ACA.



#4 v6 torana

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Posted 29 October 2014 - 06:37 PM

It's getting hard to obtain reliable aftermarket electronic parts.
Try ACA.

 

Terry and Danny thanks for your advise.

 

I just tested the CAS with a multimeter (turned engine by hand) and have on/off 6 volts and receive the 3X and 18 X signals from CAS but still no spark



#5 rodomo

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Posted 29 October 2014 - 09:16 PM

Swap the inj relay.

#6 Rockoz

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Posted 29 October 2014 - 10:40 PM

Have you checked the error codes?



#7 Collo

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Posted 30 October 2014 - 12:09 AM

No start when hot says CAS. Next time it won't start when hot, try a bit of water on the CAS.

Edited by slr_v8, 30 October 2014 - 12:10 AM.


#8 Potta

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Posted 30 October 2014 - 12:43 AM

Yeah try checking the CAS with the multimeter when its hot and won't start.

 

My VT used to do this too.



#9 Dr Terry

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Posted 30 October 2014 - 07:08 AM

It's getting hard to obtain reliable aftermarket electronic parts.
Try ACA.

ACA closed up around 2 - 3 years ago.

 

Where do you live ? I stock all of these parts in Sydney (Auburn).

 

It sounds to me like a faulty DFI. Apparently Delphi had a faulty batch of these in recent years, the current ones are OK.

 

Dr Terry



#10 76lxhatch

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Posted 30 October 2014 - 09:12 AM

A mate had this issue with his VT, it was just so random and took ages to figure it out. Swapped the DFI module and crank angle sensor, tested all the pins on the module connector as per procedure, sometimes it worked, sometimes it didn't. Turned out the relay was dodgy - give it a wiggle and sometimes it'd work fine, other times nothing!

 

Beyond that the module and crank angle sensor are definitely the places to start. Do you have the GMH test procedures?



#11 Rockoz

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Posted 30 October 2014 - 11:13 AM

Bit of a hijack but may be related.

My VT has a vibration.

Sometimes at idle but more noticeable when driving.

Seems to go away when it goes into final gear. Auto.

Could it be ignition or transmission?

Any ideas?

No check engine coming up.



#12 TerrA LX

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Posted 30 October 2014 - 12:20 PM

ACA closed up around 2 - 3 years ago.

 

Where do you live ? I stock all of these parts in Sydney (Auburn).

 

It sounds to me like a faulty DFI. Apparently Delphi had a faulty batch of these in recent years, the current ones are OK.

 

Dr Terry

Damn I didn't know ACA are gone too.

Been some time since I needed stuff like this.
I should remember to ask you first next time.



#13 v6 torana

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Posted 30 October 2014 - 12:25 PM

ACA closed up around 2 - 3 years ago.

 

Where do you live ? I stock all of these parts in Sydney (Auburn).

 

It sounds to me like a faulty DFI. Apparently Delphi had a faulty batch of these in recent years, the current ones are OK.

 

 

Dr Terry, I live at Padstow, where are you in Auburn and how much for a module ?

 

Craig, Yes have tested CAS with multimeter when no spark when hot. CAS is sending 3x and 18 signals but no spark from DFI.

 

76lshatch, have fitted new bosch relays, code 12 (no faults from ECU)


Edited by v6 torana, 30 October 2014 - 12:27 PM.


#14 LJ RB30

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Posted 30 October 2014 - 01:01 PM

I purchased a new Delphi DFI & coils new for my VS about 3 years ago as mine would intermitantly cutout & no spark.

 

The new unit would backfire on gas badly , splitting the intake pipe :sad:

 

Swapped for a spare unit a mate had that had a rough idle but proved the new unit was faulty.

 

They replaced it with another new unit that was fine :)

It sounds to me like a faulty DFI. Apparently Delphi had a faulty batch of these in recent years, the current ones are OK.

 

Dr Terry



#15 Dr Terry

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Posted 30 October 2014 - 02:14 PM

Dr Terry, I live at Padstow, where are you in Auburn and how much for a module ?

 

Craig, Yes have tested CAS with multimeter when no spark when hot. CAS is sending 3x and 18 signals but no spark from DFI.

 

76lshatch, have fitted new bosch relays, code 12 (no faults from ECU)

I'm in the south end of Auburn, 15 Princes Rd (East), which almost on the borderline of Regents Park.

 

A new DFI is around $150 including GST, trade.

 

I can loan you one to try. It could also the ECU, they were a very common fail on VN/VPs, but they weren't very temperature sensitive. They're around the same price as a DFI.

 

Dr Terry



#16 76lxhatch

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Posted 30 October 2014 - 04:50 PM

76lshatch, have fitted new bosch relays, code 12 (no faults from ECU)

 
Ignition issues do not generally cause check engine lights or ECU faults, because the module is quite separate. As long as the ECU gets its crank angle input it will be happy, but the module could be faulting in a number of ways without it knowing. I would run through the electrical test procedure which involves probing a few different pins on the module plug with a multimeter to check its inputs and outputs, does sound like the module is at fault but always worth checking.

 

Bit of a hijack but may be related.
My VT has a vibration.
Sometimes at idle but more noticeable when driving.
Seems to go away when it goes into final gear. Auto.
Could it be ignition or transmission?
Any ideas?
No check engine coming up.

 

Similar to the above, yes it could potentially be ignition if there's no CEL. When the coils start to die it generally shows as rough running (it gets rougher when they stop altogether!), with the later ones you can often isolate it to just one of the coils and replace that rather than the whole thing.



#17 v6 torana

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Posted 30 October 2014 - 07:11 PM

I'm in the south end of Auburn, 15 Princes Rd (East), which almost on the borderline of Regents Park.

 

A new DFI is around $150 including GST, trade.

 

I can loan you one to try. It could also the ECU, they were a very common fail on VN/VPs, but they weren't very temperature sensitive. They're around the same price as a DFI.

 

Dr Terry

Thanks Dr Terry

 

I just tried another DFI & ECU same problem starts (cold engine) and runs (had it running for 1 minute from cold engine and turned off). Tried to restart - no spark !!!



#18 v6 torana

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Posted 02 November 2014 - 10:51 AM

Ring the Bell................ fixed it.

 

The Delphi CAS (new) which I fitted a few weeks ago was the problem.






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