Hi All,
Was wondering what people thoughts were on today's market , and where they will head.
Obviously we don't have a crystal ball, so this will only be people's opinion.
I was talking to someone recently that thought that the modified cars will rise more over time than the original cars. I laughed, but he had a thought process to that. His thought was that as the older guys stopped buying the "original" cars and the younger guys came into the market, the modified would become more sort after, therefore driving up the prices. He used his 19 and 23 yer old boys as an example. They would sat "dad what is this car you paid so much for. No power (compared to the rocket ships of today), poor handling and tiny wheels". Where as, he would much prefer a white LJ XU-1 in his shed.
Also, I look at the prices people are asking for cars today, original and modified/ inhanced replicas (for want of a better word), and think, can the rise continue,will it plateau for a while then rise again, or infant begin to reduce?????
Compared to what you can buy late model for the same money, you really don't get much for your money. I understand that as car enthusiasts it's more about the car than the extras, but the fact still remains.
My thoughts stem from I am considering buying an LC GTR as my next car/investment. This car is finished to a very high quality, and is ready to enjoy. It is a GTR, however does not have the original driveline. The colour and interior is as per tag, but driveline far from original. Still a six, but a warm 202, not a 161. The price is at the high end of the scale, but my thoughts are......
Over the next, let's say ten years, the price of all Toranas will increase, regardless of origin or model, modified or stock. A well finished car with a desired tag and colour combination would be worth the purchase today, even if non original driveline. It will still be worth more in the future.
They say house prices will come down too, but I can't see that happening either.
Anyway, your thoughts?????????
Torana prices, today and moving forward
Started by
_LS2 Hatch_
, Nov 24 2014 10:52 AM
105 replies to this topic
#2
Redslur
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Posted 24 November 2014 - 11:10 AM
I think the prices will pretty much stay the same. I think there is still a big shift to come in the economy so therefore more hurt for many. I think the prices are actually fairly reasonable at the moment. However, some out there are still asking big dollars for cars that clearly won't sell for those sorts of prices.
In the longer term when things pick up again, there will probably be a small gain in prices initially but I really think that our generation is thining out so the younger generation won't take to our cars as much as we do and the prices will eventually drop. In saying that, there isn't much nowadays that will be too sort after in the future to come.
My thoughts...
#4
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Posted 24 November 2014 - 11:17 AM
I hope they come down in price !
They will but like TBM said good cars will always fetch good dollars
#5
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Posted 24 November 2014 - 11:59 AM
There will always be a bunch of people who are obsessed with date coded fuel line clips and similar. You can meet similar folk at any vintage event you go to. These folk will keep the prices of "show points champions" type cars alive for ever. There is however a reasonable ceiling. At some point you can buy a more desirable vehicle.
The modified stuff will always be worth approx 30-80% of its build cost.
As for house prices? Have a look at how far above the long term trend price we are. It enough to chill you to the bone if you have most of your money tied up in housing...
The modified stuff will always be worth approx 30-80% of its build cost.
As for house prices? Have a look at how far above the long term trend price we are. It enough to chill you to the bone if you have most of your money tied up in housing...
#6
_judgelj_
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Posted 24 November 2014 - 12:31 PM
I feel like they have been on the rise in the last few years.
#7
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Posted 24 November 2014 - 12:39 PM
I bought my SL/R 5000 in 89 for $9200. 138000 k's on the clock & very stock. Set of hot wires & mud flaps were all the mods put it up for sale best offer was $42000 as it's in need of a restore.
Bought a house in 90 $92000 sold it for $245000 last year.
Bought $2500 bank shares in 87 today's price is around $82000.
I say this, if your going to buy one of these cars buy it because you love it not how much money you could make.
Just because someone is willing to pay big money for one car, doesn't mean if you're got the same thing you'll get the same money.
Stock will always go up more when it's a GTR, XU1, L34 , SL/R , A9X .
Who out there has modified a car & made money.
My 2c.
Victor
Bought a house in 90 $92000 sold it for $245000 last year.
Bought $2500 bank shares in 87 today's price is around $82000.
I say this, if your going to buy one of these cars buy it because you love it not how much money you could make.
Just because someone is willing to pay big money for one car, doesn't mean if you're got the same thing you'll get the same money.
Stock will always go up more when it's a GTR, XU1, L34 , SL/R , A9X .
Who out there has modified a car & made money.
My 2c.
Victor
#8
_threeblindmice_
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Posted 24 November 2014 - 12:48 PM
The other factor that has kept the price of Toranas and parts low , is for years young blokes would know where they were in town , backyards , sheds and wreckers , but that is changing as good ones are harder to find now . Good two door , little Toranas , are like money in the bank I can't see that changing , and there prices will help push the four door market prices up too . Good times are coming , if the price being paid for LC grills and Headlight surrounds and other parts , is any indication of the future .
#9
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Posted 24 November 2014 - 01:06 PM
Collectors have been around for generations collecting one thing or another and the better the quality and rarer the item the more they will pay, serious car collectors have been in the market for decades and some of the most highly sort after vehicles come from the early 1900's right up to today, if the car is sort after and its history is in tact then a serious collectors will want it and will pay good $$$'s for it
cars of high production numbers are more likely to get better dollars with their street appeal rather then originality but that will plateau somewhere were the volume of cars meet the number of buyers,
also everything is going the way of a global market and highly sort after Australian collectable cars will be no different, quality Aussie Muscle Cars are already going across to American car collectors
#10
RallyRed
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Posted 24 November 2014 - 01:06 PM
you raise an interesting aside there TBM..wonder what a complete good car, stipped into each and every part would sell for on Eb.y or wherever?....bit like selling a kidney is guess.
p.s I wont be trying it.
p.s I wont be trying it.
#11
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Posted 24 November 2014 - 02:20 PM
A few of us have spoken about this before. How popular will our cars, from the 60's and 70's, going to be in 10 - 20 years time?
For a lot of us we will be in our 60's to 70's and the thought of driving something without power steer or Air Cond. probably doesn't appeal to most.
I know that one of my cars was purchased from the original owner because it was just too hard for them to drive it.
I also wonder if the generation of the now 20 - 30 year olds will be interested in our cars when they are 40 - 50 or will they still be into their 80's - 90's cars that they grew up with?
While I hope that the popularity of our cars continue, I can see the cars from the 80's and 90's becoming quite popular as well.
cheers
Mick
#12
Statler
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Posted 24 November 2014 - 02:21 PM
There are only a certain number of any particular model. They aren't making any more. If you want one, supply & demand says you have to pay.
'Demand' is the key word! If the demand disappears over night, The prices fall.
If all the baby-boomers won lotto on the same week, & they all wanted their boyhood dream cars, the prices go up. Pretty much what happened in the boom. Unrealistic wages, punters thinking life would never get any worse could suddenly afford a lazy 50K+ for a toy.
Fast forward a couple of years & there's no work. Suddenly these 'toys' are now filtering back onto the market & selling for way less than the buying price. Hey ...... it's nice to own an XU-!, not so nice when the bank owns it.
The biggest problem in the market today is that those buyers who bought high, or their friends who know what they paid, are assuming the market. Just because old mate down the road sold his mint SL/R for 50K doesn't mean that your LH Sunbudgie (even with the flares & hotwires) is in the same ball park. Just because someone sold their A9X in the boom time for 380K doesn't mean every A9X is now worth 380K!
Australia has always had an enviable motor racing history. Those particular vehicles which helped forge that history will always be in demand. The better the quality/originality/history, the higher the price.
The prices of those cars will never fall to a level where 'Joe on the street" could afford one.
#13
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Posted 24 November 2014 - 03:00 PM
The special model matching number cars will retain value but I really can't see modified base models being in big demand for ever, apart from for drag and club racing. Modern cars are so much more comfortable, capable and efficient.
Prices for late model Euro sports cars are just too attractive.
http://www.carsguide...&searchLimit=12
.
Edited by Lazarus, 24 November 2014 - 03:01 PM.
#14
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Posted 24 November 2014 - 03:00 PM
Firstly, don't use the words INVESTMENT and CAR in the same sentence. Especially if in Australia the car doesn't have associated with it codes like 1837, GTHO, XU1, L34 E38 or A9X.
I reckon some second tier cars are way overpriced at the moment, specifically GTR's, SLR5000's, GT's and HK Monaros that aren't GTS327's. So if it was me I wouldn't be "investing" in a GTR, especially a non original car. Buy it because you want it sure, nothing wrong with that - people regularly burn twice what you'd pay for the car by buying a new HSV or FPV or turbo diesel sh!tbox only to trade them 2 years later for 40% of what they paid and do it all over again. If you want to "invest" in that sort of car buy an XU1.
In the long term my prediction is people will lose major interest (hence value drops) in Toranas other than the premium performance cars (XU1 and L34) or the homologation models (A9X in Torana). It will probably happen with Holdens too, and Fords as well. Sure there will always be buyers for really good original cars, modified cars and Survivors, but I don't see you making big gains on a GTR if you buy at today's market rates.
I reckon some second tier cars are way overpriced at the moment, specifically GTR's, SLR5000's, GT's and HK Monaros that aren't GTS327's. So if it was me I wouldn't be "investing" in a GTR, especially a non original car. Buy it because you want it sure, nothing wrong with that - people regularly burn twice what you'd pay for the car by buying a new HSV or FPV or turbo diesel sh!tbox only to trade them 2 years later for 40% of what they paid and do it all over again. If you want to "invest" in that sort of car buy an XU1.
In the long term my prediction is people will lose major interest (hence value drops) in Toranas other than the premium performance cars (XU1 and L34) or the homologation models (A9X in Torana). It will probably happen with Holdens too, and Fords as well. Sure there will always be buyers for really good original cars, modified cars and Survivors, but I don't see you making big gains on a GTR if you buy at today's market rates.
Edited by yel327, 24 November 2014 - 03:02 PM.
#15
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Posted 24 November 2014 - 04:32 PM
I'm not very optimistic about the current popularity & value of Toranas increasing much more in time, I believe they will fall. I came to this conclusion by thinking back to when I first got my licence & Toranas were fairly cheap & plentiful & common for a young person's first car. The first car owners of today are usually buying cheap second hand Japanese cars with EFI, A/C, power steer, electric windows etc, so I can't see any appeal for them in paying a lot of money for an old carby engine car with no A/C etc in years to come. Another thought that occurred to me is the example of my boss & his three sons who work with us as spray painters.
My boss is a few years older than me & a old school petrol head like me. He has three Monaros that he has owned for near on 40 years, a Silver Mink HK GTS 307, Kashmir white HT GTS 350 & a Indy orange HG GTS 350. They are all sitting in the workshop on flat tyres with 20 years of dust & old plastic bumper bars etc stacked on top.
He has three sons in their late teens to early twenties & not one of them has any interest in the Monaros what so ever. One drives a R32 VW Golf, another drives a Mitsubishi EVO 7 & the third a VE SV6 Commodore. To them, a late model Jap turbo car with all the mod cons is far more appealing than a dinosaur clunker of a V8 Holden ( their words). Even my 16yo step son has a photo of our neighbour's Nissan S15 Silvia as his computer screen saver. So I think in time it'll be die hard old school Torana fans of today that will keep the legend alive until natural attrition sees the numbers ( and value etc ) dwindle. Just my thoughts on the subject.
#16
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Posted 24 November 2014 - 04:59 PM
I bought my SL/R 5000 in 89 for $9200. 138000 k's on the clock & very stock. Set of hot wires & mud flaps were all the mods put it up for sale best offer was $42000 as it's in need of a restore.
Bought a house in 90 $92000 sold it for $245000 last year.
Bought $2500 bank shares in 87 today's price is around $82000.
I say this, if your going to buy one of these cars buy it because you love it not how much money you could make.
Just because someone is willing to pay big money for one car, doesn't mean if you're got the same thing you'll get the same money.
Stock will always go up more when it's a GTR, XU1, L34 , SL/R , A9X .
Who out there has modified a car & made money.
My 2c.
Victor
Absolutely spot on in my opinion ....... if your paying $70,000 upwards for a car, any car, expect to wait a while to make a profit ...... I bought mine in 89, and even in 97 it would have been lucky to pull $20,000.... they did seem to increase rapidly along with the HO from that point on, especially as the HO topped out at around $800,000, and then other cars became more popular, and expensive as investors saw there was a profit to be made from all the cars from that era ...
It funny how we sometimes laugh at someone trying to sell a complete LC Coupe for $30,000, yet totally expect a set of headlight surrounds to sell for over a $1000............. anyway as far as I'm concerned, there is always someone willing to buy Classic's .... the more Original and Rare the more they will pay.... and if you doubt this, try buying a 39 Brough Superior, and their a bit older than a Torana ...... Most of us weren't the first owners of our cars, and we won't be the last... just enjoy the them, from S, to SLR, they all have a story, and they are all special ..... even the special ones, 
chech this price, and it takes up 1/4 the room of a Hatchback ........ http://thekneeslider...ss100-for-sale/
Edited by ChaosWeaver, 24 November 2014 - 05:02 PM.
#17
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Posted 24 November 2014 - 05:13 PM
Bought a house in 90 $92000 sold it for $245000 last year.
r
Is that supposed to be $2.45m ?
#18
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Posted 24 November 2014 - 05:19 PM
Interesting one.
While having these cars for the experience/memories , we all probably secretly hope for a breakeven/windfall somewhere down
the track.
I guess if in the future IF there are 2 cars...
one orig.... and one needing a full resto....and the 2035 price for the resto is $120k....then you could expect that the original one would be worth at least that???...
Just my HO
While having these cars for the experience/memories , we all probably secretly hope for a breakeven/windfall somewhere down
the track.
I guess if in the future IF there are 2 cars...
one orig.... and one needing a full resto....and the 2035 price for the resto is $120k....then you could expect that the original one would be worth at least that???...
Just my HO
#19
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Posted 24 November 2014 - 05:33 PM
Firstly, don't use the words INVESTMENT and CAR in the same sentence. Especially if in Australia the car doesn't have associated with it codes like 1837, GTHO, XU1, L34 E38 or A9X.
I reckon some second tier cars are way overpriced at the moment, specifically GTR's, SLR5000's, GT's and HK Monaros that aren't GTS327's. So if it was me I wouldn't be "investing" in a GTR, especially a non original car. Buy it because you want it sure, nothing wrong with that - people regularly burn twice what you'd pay for the car by buying a new HSV or FPV or turbo diesel sh!tbox only to trade them 2 years later for 40% of what they paid and do it all over again. If you want to "invest" in that sort of car buy an XU1.
In the long term my prediction is people will lose major interest (hence value drops) in Toranas other than the premium performance cars (XU1 and L34) or the homologation models (A9X in Torana). It will probably happen with Holdens too, and Fords as well. Sure there will always be buyers for really good original cars, modified cars and Survivors, but I don't see you making big gains on a GTR if you buy at today's market rates.
I agree with part of what you are saying, but not all. You are neglecting the issue that those who cannot afford lets say an XU1, tend to look at the next model down, the GTR (the same goes for L34 and SLR etc)... This in itself is a driving force, this keeps the market bubbling along and gaining value (for the second tier cars). These second tier cars will never be as valuable as the XU1/L34/A9Xs, but I believe they will increase proportionally to the top tier cars, just less... just my opinion...
However, I do agree, that you shouldn't buy one of these cars purely as an investment, as there is much better ways to invest. Buy cause you want it or like it, and any increase in value (that WILL happen in time TBH), is a bonus. If you loose a little money, as you said, no biggie, as buying a new car you loose 50% within 3 years...
#20
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Posted 24 November 2014 - 06:01 PM
Your right about the second and third tier , if the GTR is near half the value of an XU1 , and the S's with a two door now worth about 1/3 of the price of an XU1 , have they gained on the performance cars over the last few years , because they didn't suffering the big drop in price the XU1 did . If my comparison is right , what was the percentage three years ago ? It looks like The two door S has had the biggest increase in value out of the three tiers .
Edited by threeblindmice, 24 November 2014 - 06:02 PM.
#21
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Posted 24 November 2014 - 06:31 PM
I bought my SL/R 5000 in 89 for $9200. 138000 k's on the clock & very stock. Set of hot wires & mud flaps were all the mods put it up for sale best offer was $42000 as it's in need of a restore.
Bought a house in 90 $92000 sold it for $245000 last year.
Bought $2500 bank shares in 87 today's price is around $82000.
I say this, if your going to buy one of these cars buy it because you love it not how much money you could make.
Just because someone is willing to pay big money for one car, doesn't mean if you're got the same thing you'll get the same money.
Stock will always go up more when it's a GTR, XU1, L34 , SL/R , A9X .
Who out there has modified a car & made money.
My 2c.
Victor
Sorry guy some wrong dates car was bought 1998 & house was 2000. Victor
Is that supposed to be $2.45m ?
I wish haha
#22
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Posted 24 November 2014 - 06:32 PM
Your right about the second and third tier , if the GTR is near half the value of an XU1 , and the S's with a two door now worth about 1/3 of the price of an XU1 , have they gained on the performance cars over the last few years , because they didn't suffering the big drop in price the XU1 did . If my comparison is right , what was the percentage three years ago ? It looks like The two door S has had the biggest increase in value out of the three tiers .
For sure, look at what is being paid for really good Premiers especially HD to HQ, even nice Survivor Kingswoods. It is that $20k price bracket that people seem to see as disposable.
#23
yel327
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Posted 24 November 2014 - 06:38 PM
I agree with part of what you are saying, but not all. You are neglecting the issue that those who cannot afford lets say an XU1, tend to look at the next model down, the GTR (the same goes for L34 and SLR etc)... This in itself is a driving force, this keeps the market bubbling along and gaining value (for the second tier cars). These second tier cars will never be as valuable as the XU1/L34/A9Xs, but I believe they will increase proportionally to the top tier cars, just less... just my opinion...
Sort of I suppose, people I think see what the top shelf stuff is bringing and seem to over-value the next tier which normally were far more common than the limited numbers build of the good stuff. GTS sedans, even GTS coupes, GTR, HQ SS, SLR5000 etc were pretty common cars and still are although the attrition rate has been pretty high. You do see reasonable XU1's for sale not that far over $50k, same with HQ GTS350 sedans. Yet you see people thinking their GTR or GTS sedan is worth over $40k, which it may be if an exceptional car but not for the bulk of them. In the end you might be better off buying a really mint S like TBM says rather than a so-so GTR.
#24
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Posted 24 November 2014 - 06:40 PM
Your right about the second and third tier , if the GTR is near half the value of an XU1 , and the S's with a two door now worth about 1/3 of the price of an XU1 , have they gained on the performance cars over the last few years , because they didn't suffering the big drop in price the XU1 did . If my comparison is right , what was the percentage three years ago ? It looks like The two door S has had the biggest increase in value out of the three tiers .
Correct from what I have seen.
Plenty of s toranas selling for not much less than GTR. In many respects, makes some gtrs quite cheap in comparison.
Yet the XU1s have in fact taken a bit of a hit in regards to value. However I think this is just a correction... Top tier cars will always be the better investment, IMO
#25
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Posted 24 November 2014 - 07:36 PM
I agree , but just not in the last ten years .
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