105 replies to this topic

[Biscuit]

I know this topic is old, but nevertheless still something we all still talk about.

The difference between the 60's - 70's cars and cars of the last 15 years is that they will always be able to be repaired to original standing, even if parts aren't available you will be able to get something hand made if needed, whereas if you look at whatever car today that you think will be a classic (say a last run HSV or whatever) i really can't see in 40 years that you will be able to get a 'genuine original 7" touch screen with factory original GPS maps' or the myriad of electronics that the cars have, add to this the fact that all body panels are high tensile steel and can't be beaten, heated, etc.

So personally, I wonder what our grand children will be 'restoring' in future years - i wouldn't be surprised to see Monaro's, Torana's, and Kingswoods being considered as classics and outlasting anything you have purchased new in the last 10 years.

I remember in the late 80's, it seemed every second car on the road was a VL Commodore, now I think I see as many Torana's as I do VLs.

 

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[StephenSLR]

I really can't see in 40 years that you will be able to get a 'genuine original 7" touch screen with factory original GPS maps' or the myriad of electronics that the cars have

 

You're forgetting how technology works. It may not be an original touch screen but likely to be some new technology that will slot in its place but with an original looking facade. Similar to how you can buy a digital radio with bluetooth, etc. and authentic 60's looking fascia. There will also be tech guys restoring the old stuff just like you have guys restoring the old AM radios and SL/R gauges.

 

I agree with the body panels, they may not be as easy to work with as mild steel but where there's a will there's a way, I'm sure they'll find a solution. There will always be purists that want to revive the old stuff, perhaps not as many as there are today though.

 

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[Ice]

I know this topic is old, but nevertheless still something we all still talk about.
The difference between the 60's - 70's cars and cars of the last 15 years is that they will always be able to be repaired to original standing, even if parts aren't available you will be able to get something hand made if needed, whereas if you look at whatever car today that you think will be a classic (say a last run HSV or whatever) i really can't see in 40 years that you will be able to get a 'genuine original 7" touch screen with factory original GPS maps' or the myriad of electronics that the cars have, add to this the fact that all body panels are high tensile steel and can't be beaten, heated, etc.
So personally, I wonder what our grand children will be 'restoring' in future years - i wouldn't be surprised to see Monaro's, Torana's, and Kingswoods being considered as classics and outlasting anything you have purchased new in the last 10 years.
I remember in the late 80's, it seemed every second car on the road was a VL Commodore, now I think I see as many Torana's as I do VLs.
 
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These old jiggers we love to drive will be scrap metal one day not any time soon not in our life time anyway but as soon as electric cars take off then bang no more fuel needed
mark my words

[StephenSLR]

as soon as electric cars take off then bang no more fuel needed
mark my words

 

 

I see future Torana owners doing this to their non-SL/R's and I hope I'm around to experience it being affordable.

 

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Edited by StephenSLR, 18 August 2017 - 07:19 PM.

[cameron]

The car (as we know it) is about to have the biggest change since the invention of the internal combustion engine. Once solid state batteries start appearing into production cars we will see a market explosion of models and brands. Fossil fuel powered cars will become museum history show pieces just like the vcr, crt tv's etc.

 

The prices of the very best rare examples of fossil fuel cars will still command decent $$$ regardless of if they are viable to use on the road. Collectors will still want a piece of history.The size of that market however will dramatically shrink as obsolescence and pricing changes the whole desire/affordability/usability ratio.

 

Cameron

[Liz Clare]

The car (as we know it) is about to have the biggest change since the invention of the internal combustion engine. Once solid state batteries start appearing into production cars we will see a market explosion of models and brands. Fossil fuel powered cars will become museum history show pieces just like the vcr, crt tv's etc.

 

The prices of the very best rare examples of fossil fuel cars will still command decent $$$ regardless of if they are viable to use on the road. Collectors will still want a piece of history.The size of that market however will dramatically shrink as obsolescence and pricing changes the whole desire/affordability/usability ratio.

 

Cameron

I think you're on the money there Cameron. I've "liked" your comment but the selfish, petrol-head in me doesn't like the future of non-fossil fuel cars and I'm hoping not to be around to see this happen. Doesn't pay to live too long.

 

Cheers,

 

Liz

[StephenSLR]

The prices of the very best rare examples of fossil fuel cars will still command decent $$$ regardless of if they are viable to use on the road. Collectors will still want a piece of history.The size of that market however will dramatically shrink as obsolescence and pricing changes the whole desire/affordability/usability ratio.

 

I do believe the ultra rare will command good money but not on today's scale if fossil fuels become obsolete or too expensive. Part of the appeal of the rare multi-million dollar early race cars (Ferrari, etc.) is you can still fill them up and take them for a spin if you want to; once that is no longer an option and they become decoration only, you'll see their value plummet.

 

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[RallyRed]

http://www.ecuriebow...-group-c-torana

[cameron]

I think you're on the money there Cameron. I've "liked" your comment but the selfish, petrol-head in me doesn't like the future of non-fossil fuel cars and I'm hoping not to be around to see this happen. Doesn't pay to live too long.

 

Cheers,

 

Liz

 

Didn't realize that their was any other way to be. Hell I have been a petrol head since Adam was a boy and will be till my last breath.

 

 

I do believe the ultra rare will command good money but not on today's scale if fossil fuels become obsolete or too expensive. Part of the appeal of the rare multi-million dollar early race cars (Ferrari, etc.) is you can still fill them up and take them for a spin if you want to; once that is no longer an option and they become decoration only, you'll see their value plummet.

 

s

 

Pretty much. I will not be around, but its enviable that fossil fuel will become obsolete, hard to buy and probably in the end illegal (The hug a tree law)

No doubt even before that point saturation/demand will collapse the pricing as we know it (its just logical) but a rare few of the absolute landmark cars will still hold some worth. Hell people spend big $$ on a variety of rare antiques, art and other collectables that serve zero practical purpose. I know people who have some very expensive old junk they have paid tens of thousands for that I would throw away in a heartbeat.

 

Cameron

[StephenSLR]

Pretty much. I will not be around, but its enviable that fossil fuel will become obsolete, hard to buy and probably in the end illegal

 

I don't think it'll be illegal. The oil boon is declining as we're running out of the stuff. When oil fields dry up and we lose the free flowing stuff you then have to mine the gluggy oil stuck to the walls and that gets more expensive to mine the harder it is.

 

Eventually it'll be so expensive only the rich will be able to afford it and when they can no longer afford it, oil mining will cease.

 

s

[cameron]

Unfortunately it will become illegal as seen with leaded fuel and products like common chemicals that we used to use (like chromium trioxide) and products like asbestos. Obviously such dramatic law is not around the corner but you are correct (like cigarettes) they will price fuel out of reality. But in order for the activists to save the planet from self inflicted destruction fossil fuels and engines running them will be outlawed around the world. Zero emissions will be the only way for any power in the future.

 

http://www.aph.gov.a...ition?id=EN0314

 

Cameron

[StephenSLR]

 in order for the activists to save the planet from self inflicted destruction fossil fuels and engines running them will be outlawed around the world. Zero emissions will be the only way for any power in the future.

 

The tree huggers can protest but the govt. isn't so willing to give in when the risk/benefit ratio is very high in benefit. Yeah, we now have to add catalytic converters, emission controls, the EPA regs have added a significant cost to energy production and a whole new market has sprung up developing new technology to filter out the nasties but we're a long way from zero emission. 

 

You are correct it's the greenies that are stopping us from utilising nuclear power, after Chernobyl and Fukushima the gen. pop. is too afraid to support it but it's the cleanest energy there is; the waste product on the other hand.....

 

s

Edited by StephenSLR, 25 August 2017 - 12:45 PM.

[Rainman]

I don't think todays closure is going to see a reduction in value of the torana in the near future. What do the trends say when other automotive manufactures have closed there doors ?. If you bubble wrapped and new holden today, would it be an investment ?

[jd lj]

Would you do an electric motor conversion to your torana, would it still have the same appeal?

I don't think that there's many power sources that are zero emissions or zero waste products, some would have a better ratio than others though. Electric cars still produce emissions at the point where the power is generated but it's just not at out of the exhaust pipe. Possibly solar and wind power are some of the cleanest power sources emissions wise, burning coal to power an electric car just moves the problem.

How many thousands of years does it take for oil to form, tuck the torana away for the next 20,000 or so years and let the future generations have some fun, what a barn find it would be by then. Obviously joking here.

[jd lj]

In my opinion you'd have to be unrealistic to think that classic car prices will eventually drop to a more realistic level, it's going to take a while but it'll happen. The younger generations generally aren't interested in them and technology is evolving at an ever increasing rate leaving them in its wake. One day the tables will turn on the current supply vs demand situation.

[StephenSLR]

Would you do an electric motor conversion to your Torana, would it still have the same appeal?

 

Ten years ago I would've said not on your life but after seeing that outrageously fast elec. Mustang, yeah I'd give it a go. Mine isn't a 5000, it doesn't have the original engine so don't rip your hair out folks. It's my car for my enjoyment and it'd appeal to me.

 

Electric cars still produce emissions at the point where the power is generated but it's just not at out of the exhaust pipe.  burning coal to power an electric car just moves the problem.

 

Yes it shifts the problem but electric cars are 50% cleaner according to this article in 2015 and they're even cleaner today with more solar and wind farms around.

 

http://www.ucsusa.or...48#.WeplTog7bIU

 

Of course, this is on the premise that people phase out their petrol cars after they've driven them for their designed lifespan. If we all went electric overnight there is significant pollution involved in manufacturing so many cars to meet demand.

 

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Edited by StephenSLR, 21 October 2017 - 08:28 AM.

[LC-GTR-1969]

The day will come where the demand for classics reduces enough to drop the values significantly... But I think it will be 30-40 years away. I don't know many under 30 who would even know what a torana is let alone have a desire to pay high prices for one... But there are plenty above 30 who want them. When the last generation of chrome bumper lovers are 65 plus, that's when I reckon you will start to see a reduction.

[StephenSLR]

In my opinion you'd have to be unrealistic to think that classic car prices will eventually drop to a more realistic level, it's going to take a while but it'll happen.

 

Absolutely and I don't think it'll be a gradual decline either. One day you'll have an investment, the next day (figuratively speaking) you'll have a lemon excepting A9X and L34 which will still be expensive but perhaps not at their peak if electric is the norm at the time. If you're worried about the investment value, sell the moment you see a decline because every other investor will be doing the same. If you like your car for your own pleasure, keep it and enjoy it; that's what they're for imo.

 

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Edited by StephenSLR, 21 October 2017 - 07:19 AM.

[StephenSLR]

When the last generation of chrome bumper lovers are 65 plus, that's when I reckon you will start to see a reduction.

 

Here's an interesting pov from the American market:

 

How Baby Boomers Created Today's Classic-Car Market—and How They Could Crash It

 

"We won’t see a generation of similar size until the so-called millennials hit their peak earning years in a few decades. It’s questionable whether they will care about the cars of their grandfathers and great-grandfathers—or any cars, for that matter."

 

The happiest people in the hobby are the ones who buy what they like first and let the market worry about return on investment.

 

https://www.caranddr...rash-it-feature

 

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[StephenSLR]

Here's a clip on the topic that happened to be on TV while I was typing. Some interesting points on how Aus. differs to the US and Euro market and how our govt isn't offering any incentives to buy them, in fact they're slugged with a luxury car tax. I guess with our politicians in climate change denial, it'll be slow to take on here.

 

https://www.facebook...54925955275887/

 

Warning: You'll have to put up with Karl Stefanovic's over-pronunciation of every second word, lol.

 

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Edited by StephenSLR, 21 October 2017 - 08:24 AM.

[S pack]

The day will come where the demand for classics reduces enough to drop the values significantly... But I think it will be 30-40 years away. I don't know many under 30 who would even know what a torana is let alone have a desire to pay high prices for one... But there are plenty above 30 who want them. When the last generation of chrome bumper lovers are 65 plus, that's when I reckon you will start to see a reduction.

The day will come when fossil fuel powered cars will be banned from our roads because they don't meet stringent new ZERO emissions anti pollution controls, perhaps not in our lifetime but the writing is on the wall.

[StephenSLR]

Actually it's Andrew O'Keefe

 

lol, you're right; they're all the same.

 

The day will come when fossil fuel powered cars will be banned from our roads because they don't meet stringent new ZERO emissions anti pollution controls, perhaps not in our lifetime but the writing is on the wall.

 

I'd say before that happens petrol will become so expensive that only companies who buy in bulk will be able to afford it. Some will remember when taxi companies, police stations, etc. had their own private bowsers, they probably still exist in some areas. As oil reserves dry up it costs more to extract; as people switch to electric creating a smaller market, the economies of scale will diminish and the price of petrol will skyrocket. If semi-trailers, fleet companies, etc. don't convert to electric, we'll be paying so much more for goods in the future.

 

s

Edited by StephenSLR, 21 October 2017 - 09:26 AM.