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re hq brake upgrade

Started by _livo74_ , Jan 06 2015 01:07 PM

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41 replies to this topic

#1 _livo74_

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Posted 06 January 2015 - 01:07 PM

(sorry about the odd cutting/pasting/quoting:) )

re: brake hq conversion

http://www.gmh-toran...rsion-tutorial/

this below seems to been a agreed upon good way of doing it

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posted by struggler

posted by struggler

Quote

I'm sure I will upset a few people but after doing a heap of HQ/LH/X brake conversions this is how I now do it.

Remove the Torana caliper and disc. Take your HQ discs to the brake shop and get them to remove about 6mm or a quarter inch from the external diameter of the disc and get the disc face machined down all the way to the bolt up face (most HQ discs dont have this face fully machined as the pad normally doesn't run in this area). Fit these discs to the stub axles on your car and repack the bearings (HQ and LH/X/UC bearings are the same). Trial fit the HQ caliper and check for interference (yes the HQ caliper will bolt to the torana stub) and grind away as required to clear the tie rod end. Check the clearance between the outer pad and the bolt up face of the disc (you have moved the caliper closer to the bearing than it would be in an HQ). Refit, bleed brakes and drive off !!!

Yes the caliper does not sit as far away from the spindle as it does in an HQ but you do have ventilated discs, a real caliper, HQ pattern and no wheel alignment or bumpsteer issues. Try it , you'll like it.

Flame on non believers !!!!!!!!

Quote

Struggler you will get no fight from me on this one

Thats exactly what Brock used on the yellow LJ he campaigned in the Biante series a couple of years ago

It works

Its cheap

One of many ways to upgrade your brakes

Not a huge step.... but certainly a step in the right direction

Quote

Thats exactly what I have and it passed engineering with no worries at all.

I have no complaints with my brakes.

Quote

That clearance is usually fine, but I have ground a bit off a loose pad once before.

By a real caliper I mean one that takes a good size pad, is fairly stout and flex resistant. I really don't like the alloy LX calipers that some use in the conversion with a steel HX slide.

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so.. what i'd like to know is..

question...

what about the rears? why's no one talking about the bullshit drum rears?

and,

does anyone know a mech in south east melb who is known for doing this and about how much?

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(i don't think this is something i should really be attempting myself*, so looking to get done.)

*not without knowledgeable guidance anyways.

Edited by livo74, 06 January 2015 - 01:08 PM.

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#2 TerrA LX

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Posted 06 January 2015 - 02:29 PM

Most people who need bigger front brakes have upgraded their diff to either a Borg Warner or a Fraud 9inch etc and usually use the OEM brakes from that diff swap.
Any brake swap would have to be an upgrade, Ive seen bigger brakes on the Dominos delivery \scooters than most Toranas.

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#3 _livo74_

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Posted 06 January 2015 - 08:15 PM

cheers gm

that explains the lack of comments regarding rears in "front upgrade threads".

im useless, (..have a lot of learning ahead of me/posting pics and asking what i have..)

don't even yet know what diff i have, suspect isn't upgraded/matched to the 253/auto as is just plonked in. (presently all unwired etc..).

and,

um,

as a drive shaft is just laying inside the cabin on the floor... i think(??).. an upgraded rear diff (therefore brakes) upgrade is in order.

..i gather??

would that explain 'possibly' why never bolted together? better drive shaft needed as car 'was' a 6.?

(to explain:

saw car, happy with price, checked wasn't diseased with rust, checked wasn't stolen/written off.. and said "i'll take it!!".

haven't even got it home yet. which sucks)

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#4 _Bomber Watson_

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Posted 06 January 2015 - 08:32 PM

6 banger tailshaft and diff will easilly handle the grunt of a 253 unless you drive like a frOckwit.

All the aussie boxes are the same length and have the same tailshaft spline, M20, 21, 22, 18 and 40. So unless theres something you wont know about the tailshaft will fit fine.

Im running early commy rear disks on my 9" in my LJ, easilly done whilst doing the diff conversion...

But really with a stock 253 the stock brakes will be fine.

Hate to say it, but 253's are frOcking gutless, hell the efi 6 VK was quicker down the strip than the 253 version.

Cheers.

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#5 SS hatch

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Posted 06 January 2015 - 09:43 PM

Yes 75% of 253s were slow but there were freaks that went like the clappers if modded lightly fuel in and get it out don't drown it. Not saying world beaters but I had one so had others .And surprised plenty 308s plus bombed 6ixes back in the early 80s.

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#6 _livo74_

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Posted 06 January 2015 - 10:04 PM

6 banger tailshaft and diff will easilly handle the grunt of a 253 unless you drive like a frOckwit.

All the aussie boxes are the same length and have the same tailshaft spline, M20, 21, 22, 18 and 40. So unless theres something you wont know about the tailshaft will fit fine.

Im running early commy rear disks on my 9" in my LJ, easilly done whilst doing the diff conversion...

But really with a stock 253 the stock brakes will be fine.

Hate to say it, but 253's are frOcking gutless, hell the efi 6 VK was quicker down the strip than the 253 version.

Cheers.

that's great news, less parts to buy! (already enough of a project on my plate.)

but!...

"Im running early commy rear disks on my 9" in my LJ, easilly done whilst doing the diff conversion"

"easily done" sounds sweet, and will probably searching for detailed tutorial/leads regarding, in future..

because, have lived with abs etc so long am are real worried about tiny fronts/drum rears.

"But really with a stock 253 the stock brakes will be fine. "

stockish,

will shortly be aiming for 465 holley, performer manifold, upgraded ignition, lumpy cam.

(not rockers/heads etc)

am ok with slow. hoping sounds like a fun enough 8, though:)

Yes 75% of 253s were slow but there were freaks that went like the clappers if modded lightly fuel in and get it out don't drown it. Not saying world beaters but I had one so had others .And surprised plenty 308s plus bombed 6ixes back in the early 80s.

don't know if mine will be worked enough to surprise anyone, but wouldn't complain to mildly surprise;)

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#7 SS hatch

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Posted 07 January 2015 - 08:29 AM

350 holley hm headers mild cam wouldn't do any more than that maybe a dizzy put some upgraded stopping on the front maybe the hq 6mm off the radius type. and make it handle Bilsteins /springs and stabilisers. Drive smartly and a m20-21 & banjo will live fine. But that's my thoughts with moderate coin.

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#8 Rockoz

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Posted 07 January 2015 - 08:36 AM

Had a VB Commy with a 253. Extractors Exhaust and 350 Holley

It surprised a lot of 308s. Including a mate who drove a 308 VH for work. It was white with funny stickers and extra lights.

Took a while but I ended up destroying the diff. Was only a single spinner.

Would look at the skyline conversion for reliability and extra brakes

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#9 _livo74_

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Posted 07 January 2015 - 02:21 PM

350 holley hm headers mild cam wouldn't do any more than that maybe a dizzy put some upgraded stopping on the front maybe the hq 6mm off the radius type. and make it handle Bilsteins /springs and stabilisers. Drive smartly and a m20-21 & banjo will live fine. But that's my thoughts with moderate coin.

350 holley? not 465/eidlebrock? (or 500)

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am seriously considering hq setup

(cheapest choice.. am aware of)

have had contact with hopper stoppers regarding,

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Hi Matt, if your only going to run 14" wheels, then all you can do is install hq stub axles and brakes on the front, the cost of stubs/reco hq-hz calipers/dba discs, pads, wheel bearing kits, conversion hoses $1022

If you decide to run 15" wheels, we can do our brake kit which is much bigger, everything is new for $1450

What diff are you running?

--------------------------

and then my questions about my diff started! ha

and, shooting myself about sticking with 14's, as ....want... 8/10 hotwires

...which are fast becoming an unobtainable price for me. (F#$k!)

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re:bilsteins

http://www.ebay.com....orbers&_sacat=0

..cheap option i was looking at, that is.

havent looked into bilsteins stock, (nor swaybar any).

will do.

as have tried ultra king/chinese shocks/king springs.. on my elxr6 and handled sweet enough found, hence noting these as future (very moderate coin) option in my build thread/

------------

am thoroughly enjoying hearing repeated banjo will/should be fine! (if not abusing)

Edited by livo74, 07 January 2015 - 02:27 PM.

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#10 _livo74_

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Posted 07 January 2015 - 02:31 PM

Had a VB Commy with a 253. Extractors Exhaust and 350 Holley

It surprised a lot of 308s. Including a mate who drove a 308 VH for work. It was white with funny stickers and extra lights.

Took a while but I ended up destroying the diff. Was only a single spinner.

Would look at the skyline conversion for reliability and extra brakes

due to trying to do the effort/research before asking already answered questions..

looked at the skyline thread i did.

seems a not 'too' difficult conversion that adds better diff and great rear breaks.

priceyish though.

"down the line" stuff.

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#11 _victor_

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Posted 07 January 2015 - 04:14 PM

Before you start doing any brake upgrades, work out what you're going to do at both ends. You want the same stud patten.

I have the stock V8 brakes in my SLR/5000 (L31).

I drove this car every day for 5 year's. (Not like a d**khead) & the car stops fine. Yes you can upgrade the brakes, just speak with a engineer because he will have to approve the brake upgrades.

Victor

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#12 TerrA LX

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Posted 07 January 2015 - 04:48 PM

Also, some people upgrade the front brakes and leave the rear standard.

An advantage of this is you can leave the rest of the car standard.

This will leave you with a different stud pattern front and rear.

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#13 _LS1 Taxi_

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Posted 07 January 2015 - 06:03 PM

One of the things you don't do is drop a gorilla on fitting HQ brakes to the front of your torana. No need to involve hoppers if you go with the HQ brakes.

OUTRAGEOUS!!!

Btw: the stock brakes are fine until you get more cash in the bank. You need to prioritise and work through the list or you'll end up dropping a tonne of dough on shit that's going to sit idle in your $150 marquee tent. IMHFO

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#14 Ice

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Posted 07 January 2015 - 06:14 PM

One of the things you don't do is drop a gorilla on fitting HQ brakes to the front of your torana. No need to involve hoppers if you go with the HQ brakes.
OUTRAGEOUS!!!
Btw: the stock brakes are fine until you get more cash in the bank. You need to prioritise and work through the list or you'll end up dropping a tonne of dough on shit that's going to sit idle in your $150 marquee tent. IMHFO

Listen to this dude he has been there and done that

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#15 _Bomber Watson_

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Posted 07 January 2015 - 08:15 PM

I fully agree, the stock brakes are really quiet reasonable, the fronts will easilly lock up 205 tyres...Just dont ask them to do it again and again, and if your just thinking about emergency stops, you dont need to do it multiple times.

Brocky won bathurst with stock brakes. Many times.

Cheers.

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#16 _livo74_

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Posted 07 January 2015 - 09:14 PM

Before you start doing any brake upgrades, work out what you're going to do at both ends. You want the same stud patten.

I have the stock V8 brakes in my SLR/5000 (L31).

I drove this car every day for 5 year's. (Not like a d**khead) & the car stops fine. Yes you can upgrade the brakes, just speak with a engineer because he will have to approve the brake upgrades.

Victor

Also, some people upgrade the front brakes and leave the rear standard.

An advantage of this is you can leave the rest of the car standard.

This will leave you with a different stud pattern front and rear.

One of the things you don't do is drop a gorilla on fitting HQ brakes to the front of your torana. No need to involve hoppers if you go with the HQ brakes.

OUTRAGEOUS!!!

Btw: the stock brakes are fine until you get more cash in the bank. You need to prioritise and work through the list or you'll end up dropping a tonne of dough on shit that's going to sit idle in your $150 marquee tent. IMHFO

Listen to this dude he has been there and done that

I fully agree, the stock brakes are really quiet reasonable, the fronts will easilly lock up 205 tyres...Just dont ask them to do it again and again, and if your just thinking about emergency stops, you dont need to do it multiple times.

Brocky won bathurst with stock brakes. Many times.

Cheers.

previously mentioned my great concern/fear of driving a car with only tiny fronts/drum rears.

(without having actually tested/experienced it since..um, 97 or so??)

and,

have noted soooooo many threads/comments on how upgrading to hq/or better is a big improvement.

figured doing so would be right thing to do, if not necessary.

AND,

as am often travelling through cockatoo, olinda, emerald etc on wet roads/twisty blind corners

with my daughter in the car, i didn't mind doing it AT ALL, apart from the cost excess that is)

now,

am glad to hear by multiple torana owners that with responsible calm driving it is not.

.

nows thinks,

it has ACTUALLY been tried and tested by many of you to do the work on the rest of the car,

and then judge my concerns on the brakes, which i may indeed find quite adequate.

am more than ok with that.

have enough on my plate to do, as all can imagine.

big, big cheers all:) am most thankful took time to share knowledge and experience.

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wonderfully, tomorrow..

i'm off to kooweerup to buy a carbie, battery and engine cables, starter motor and bolts.. and reclusive tory alt bracket..

to try and start the car and bring home!

(unless i get stuffed around by the parts seller again, long story,

and it's off to search again)

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#17 dattoman

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Posted 07 January 2015 - 09:16 PM

Did he ?

Once in 72 with stock XU1 brakes... but L34 had essentially HQ brakes and group C cars ran 4 pots front and rear

Regardless

Think about your options before spending cash

Brakes need to be considered during the build though due to stud pattern and wheel fitment options , also suspension setup if your changing stub axles

Personally the easy way would be to buy a Hoppers kit to suit Torana stubs and be done with it

But seems many don't want to fit 15" wheels or particular ones for clearance

Plus everyone seems to think $1450 is expensive ... look at the rest of your build... the brakes are more important than many of the other things done on the car that are not safety related.

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#18 _Bomber Watson_

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Posted 07 January 2015 - 09:27 PM

And here i was thinking only the A9X had the HQ brakes, and didnt realize they ever ran four pots....

My bad.

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#19 wot179

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Posted 07 January 2015 - 09:37 PM

Most of the blokes (not all) on this forum that spend a million buck on massive brakes drive their cars around once every 6 weeks (if they are lucky) like a Nanna in a mobility scooter.

They are just bling for a lot of people, which is fair enough, but don't kid yourself that you need them to drive a modestly modified car around safely.

Just service the standard stuff and get some pleasure out of driving it.

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#20 _livo74_

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Posted 07 January 2015 - 09:46 PM

don't complicate things dattoman!

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and, re:

"One of the things you don't do is drop a gorilla on fitting HQ brakes to the front of your torana. No need to involve hoppers if you go with the HQ brakes.

OUTRAGEOUS!!"

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sounds great!! (and why i posted the quote)

any time you/anyone can hook me up for the job to be done correctly/safely, (which i am not confidant of doing) for.. what then..?, $500 or so??

let me know k please, ls1.

be very very much appreciated

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#21 _livo74_

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Posted 07 January 2015 - 09:50 PM

my serious intention wot. will be driven friggin often as.

good point, and apart from regular servicing, i'll look into the best friggin possible brake pads. (which i haven't done for other cars)

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#22 _greg2240_

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Posted 07 January 2015 - 09:51 PM

Well said J.B.C. :clappin:

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#23 _victor_

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Posted 07 January 2015 - 09:53 PM

First et your car home & have a look & see what you've got & what short of condition it's all in.

Don't know how to link it , but there is a good thread on here about planning your project.

There's also a good thread were one of the members just put the car back together first , then see what needs to be done.

Victor

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#24 _Bomber Watson_

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Posted 07 January 2015 - 10:09 PM

sounds great!! (and why i posted the quote)

any time you/anyone can hook me up for the job to be done correctly/safely, (which i am not confidant of doing) for.. what then..?, $500 or so??

let me know k please, ls1.

be very very much appreciated

If your completely useless then the hoppers quote is reasonable for a bolt on.

Recoing calipers isnt hard, will cost rought $50, new rotors will run you about $300, new pads another $50, need custom lines made up, could cost $150 or so in rubber depending on what you have available, so thats $550 plus whatever it costs to buy the calipers and stubs, lets say $50 which is about the going rate, so $600 all up.....Everythign new in the front brakes....

Compared to the hopers quote if your not keen on doing the caliopers yourself its not a huge saving really, as getting them done at a shop will cost you a fair bit more, you will be closer to the $800 mark.

Honestly stock front brakes will go a similar amount if you cant machine the disks.

And keep in mind this is just the front brakes, you still have master cylinder, prop valve, rear brake flexy line, and wheel cylinders/pads/drums machined etc to look at.......

So, how handy are you? What are you prepared to do yourself? You can completely overhaul stock brakes for around $400 yourself if some parts (rear pads, drums, front disks) are salvageable with a machine job...But if you need to pay someone to do the work it will be closer to a grand with you fitting the parts.....