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Victoria Police Vehicle Crime Squad "Cloned Muscle Cars"


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#101 rexy

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Posted 10 February 2015 - 12:47 PM

Not picking on you or singling out but a point in case, if the system was available to everybody, on line, would that not make a data base for all to check their handy work against?
One would think this is the reason why the general public should NOT have access to this infomation.


Nope. At the end of the day as a buyer I want certainty of clear title. To be frank I could care less if it had been previously restamped or whatever as long as I am not the one left holding the baby. Lots of things have happened to these cars a long time ago.

#102 TerrA LX

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Posted 10 February 2015 - 01:27 PM

What I mean is that it should be regulated, an application made, not just a free open source where anyone and everyone can make multiple inquiries

I am all for having a national database that enables an assurance of clear title.



#103 Redslur

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Posted 10 February 2015 - 03:57 PM

What I mean is that it should be regulated, an application made, not just a free open source where anyone and everyone can make multiple inquiries

I am all for having a national database that enables an assurance of clear title.

 

Like here in ACT where a friendly call to the RTA and you can 'usually' obtain some assistance depending on the validity of your enquiry.  Which is at the discretion of the RTA officer.

 

I think Terra's reasoning behind it not being openly accessible is pretty much the reason it isn't..



#104 yel327

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Posted 10 February 2015 - 07:26 PM

You don't want open slather access to any sort of records, look at the sh!tfight that has happened with dodgy brothers having access to LC-LJ service/warranty records. We have all been through and seen the barrage of BS, and seen the faked cars, faked engine numbers etc etc and that is only what has been made public via forums. Imagine what else has been done that we will never see? I know that these idiots have ruined it for the honest people, but that is how life works in the modern world.  



#105 Shiney005

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Posted 11 February 2015 - 10:07 AM

If VCS are still reading this here is someone in Flowerdale you could check out.
http://www.ebay.com....=p2047675.l2562

#106 Tiny

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Posted 11 February 2015 - 01:30 PM

If you have any information related to this case DO NOT POST IT HERE.

Call crimestoppers and or your local police station.

Details are in the first post on how to contact VICPOL.

#107 TerrA LX

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Posted 12 February 2015 - 06:03 AM

If we could shift focus back to my point of engine checking, Victorian Police, how hard would it be for people to voluntarily register their engine numbers, along with identifiers such as VIN's and or date codes etc, (maybe a digital photo) so as they can be included in a data base for persons purchasing second hand engines privately?

I say privately because I presume, like a motor vehicle, licensed engine shops, wreckers etc who issue a receipt would afford you similar protection as if buying a a car from a dealer?
Police would not have to verify if an engine was fitted to a SLR5000 or a GT or what have you, only that the engine number is legit and of free title.



#108 StephenSLR

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Posted 12 February 2015 - 06:11 AM

Over $2,000 paid for tags?

 

http://www.ebay.com....=item4ae43ccfb3

 

s



#109 LHSL308

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Posted 12 February 2015 - 07:18 AM

Only L32 tags too. I wonder what L31 would've went for.

#110 REDA9X

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Posted 17 February 2015 - 03:12 PM

What I find is sad is it there are known cars out there that are fake, but nothing can be done till the car is sold and some poor bastard gets burnt.



#111 Tyre biter

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Posted 17 February 2015 - 03:23 PM

Not true Red (technically).

Typically it is an offence to affix, remove or alter tags and other identifiers generally - not just at the point of sale.

Thing is, as you suggest, they really do not become 'exposed' until a sale occurs and the buyer realises they have been burned.

I suspect the well credentialed (like yourself) see many cars which are suspect at best and out-and-out fraud at the worst in many capacities.

If you or anyone has information on cars in sheds which are carrying false identifiers, you can of course sign up to it by providing a statement to police.

What action then arises, or not, is another thing altogether I readily accept...

Cheers, TB



#112 REDA9X

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Posted 17 February 2015 - 03:29 PM

However tyrebiter, if  was to fake up a car and take it to shows and say it was genuine, then have I done anything wrong by the letter of the law?



#113 victor

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Posted 17 February 2015 - 03:45 PM

What about if it's a genuine car that's stolen & returned to a base model.

A mate of mine bought a lj 2 door with a 253 in it.

When he did a bare metal strip of the car, found out that body number had been cut out.

He thought at the time someone had done a really good job on fitting the guards with flute on, then discovered that they had never been removed.

Can't prove that it was stolen by why else would someone do this ?

Victor

#114 S pack

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Posted 17 February 2015 - 04:09 PM

What about if it's a genuine car that's stolen & returned to a base model.

A mate of mine bought a lj 2 door with a 253 in it.

When he did a bare metal strip of the car, found out that body number had been cut out.

He thought at the time someone had done a really good job on fitting the guards with flute on, then discovered that they had never been removed.

Can't prove that it was stolen by why else would someone do this ?

Victor

Perhaps to conceal the fact it was stolen?

For arguments sake let's say you own a registered but rusted out LJ 2 dr S so you happen to steal a pretty good LJ GTR, cut the chassis number from the S and weld it into the GTR, replace the GTR's engine, Compliance plate, VIN tag and Body tag with those from the S, repaint the car in the LJ S colour and away you go.


Edited by S pack, 17 February 2015 - 04:11 PM.


#115 Tyre biter

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Posted 17 February 2015 - 06:40 PM

However tyrebiter, if  was to fake up a car and take it to shows and say it was genuine, then have I done anything wrong by the letter of the law?

Hi Red,

 

My understanding of the laws provides an answer which is both yes and no.

Attach an identifier not belonging or even possess one for that matter = offence is likely committed.

Remove an identifier = offence is likely committed.

Go around saying a car is X but clearly be BS folks when doing so, then no - unless you are attempting to gain a financial advantage (fraud by selling misrepresented goods).

No offence in telling fibs when no-one suffers injury - some might suggest it is un-Australian not to gild the lily so to speak...

I imagine the usual chat down at the pub would be pretty ordinary if this were the case :)

 

In terms of responding to your question, it depends on one's definition of 'fake' I guess.

When trolling car shows, I've often heard owners of the 'special' cars use the term to describe replica and tribute cars.

Sanctimonious, self serving dribble and utter mean-spirited of folks when doing so IMO.

I've also heard the term used (much less frequently) to describe cars presented, portrayed and claimed to be something they are not.

I am sure you have encountered equal shares of both.

So like I said, depends on one's meaning when using the term I guess.

 

Cheers, TB


Edited by Tyre biter, 17 February 2015 - 06:46 PM.


#116 LS1 Taxi

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Posted 17 February 2015 - 07:15 PM

I want to know!

Live in vic, attend lots of car shows and know heaps of torana guys....don't know whom the guilty parties are?
Honest guys hang in honest circles perhaps?

#117 Tiny

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Posted 17 February 2015 - 07:26 PM

Just remember that this is an ongoing police investigation and for christ sake, DON'T do anything that could jeopardise the investigation by putting any allegations out there.

 

Again if you have any information - Crime Stoppers is the way to go, or PM the VICPOL User and they will take the information and move forward with it.



#118 Tiny

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Posted 17 February 2015 - 07:45 PM

Not everyone knows the identity of people involved Adam, i don't and I'd rather see yhe police lock up any offender than start a witch hunt.

#119 Bomber Watson

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Posted 17 February 2015 - 08:06 PM



#120 Ice

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Posted 17 February 2015 - 08:09 PM

And you know very well who they are Rob, unless you never visit the site, or are blind, dumb, deaf or a combination of the aforementioned.

Thats a bit harsh Adam Rob doesnt visit this site much anymore and i think Rob is someone that doesnt bullshit even if he did know its not his call
i 100% agree with you i hate the dodgy pricks but let nature take its course they will be dealt with by the law

#121 REDA9X

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Posted 17 February 2015 - 08:16 PM

Ok, technically, changing the tags on a car for instance and saying it's something it's not is illegal. However, the police will not chase that up unless there is money changing hands.

When I talk about fake cars I mean fake cars, not something thats a replica or something thats a genuine car thats been modified or some peanut saying at a car show "that cars a fake cause it has a gloss bonnet instead of satin", or the so called experts like I had at the A9X nationals one year walking around saying every A9X was a fake because it didn't have L34 on the tag. People who know full well they have a fake.

Hi Red,

 

My understanding of the laws provides an answer which is both yes and no.

Attach an identifier not belonging or even possess one for that matter = offence is likely committed.

Remove an identifier = offence is likely committed.

Go around saying a car is X but clearly be BS folks when doing so, then no - unless you are attempting to gain a financial advantage (fraud by selling misrepresented goods).

No offence in telling fibs when no-one suffers injury - some might suggest it is un-Australian not to gild the lily so to speak...

I imagine the usual chat down at the pub would be pretty ordinary if this were the case :)

 

In terms of responding to your question, it depends on one's definition of 'fake' I guess.

When trolling car shows, I've often heard owners of the 'special' cars use the term to describe replica and tribute cars.

Sanctimonious, self serving dribble and utter mean-spirited of folks when doing so IMO.

I've also heard the term used (much less frequently) to describe cars presented, portrayed and claimed to be something they are not.

I am sure you have encountered equal shares of both.

So like I said, depends on one's meaning when using the term I guess.

 

Cheers, TB



#122 REDA9X

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Posted 17 February 2015 - 08:23 PM

People, this is an ongoing police investigation, no one is to be named. A few of us know who is involved, a few have put two and two together i am sure. A warning to anyone who names someone, you will be banned from the site no questions asked, you have been warned.



Yes, time to wind it back a bit

Thats a bit harsh Adam Rob doesnt visit this site much anymore and i think Rob is someone that doesnt bullshit even if he did know its not his call
i 100% agree with you i hate the dodgy pricks but let nature take its course they will be dealt with by the law



#123 Bomber Watson

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Posted 17 February 2015 - 08:23 PM

or the so called experts like I had at the A9X nationals one year walking around saying every A9X was a fake because it didn't have L34 on the tag.

 

Really, are people that stupid?



#124 S pack

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Posted 17 February 2015 - 08:25 PM

Really, are people that stupid?

I can believe that DJ.



#125 Bomber Watson

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Posted 17 February 2015 - 08:30 PM

I've heard some pretty reconduclous statements, Like at the last local car show old mate telling me that the "L32 M40" on his tag ment factory 308 four speed on his totally origional resto SLR, that was vibrantly painted in a LH SLR 5000 theme even though it was a LX...But FFS....






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