63 replies to this topic

[SamBam]

Hey guys and girls,
im currently getting my 400 chev built up by Tony at speedworks (im in vic) and was just wondering engineering wise who would be the best person to go to look over the car etc once its all done?
I know that bigger brakes, new seat belts emissions canister would be required. If i was to get the chassis strengthening kit from crs would that help too? And have i missed anything else that should be done so i can please them in one go and not waste their time going backwards n forwards.
Cheers everyone!
Sammy

[dattoman]

Find an engineer first before you spend any more money

Your rego authorities might not allow the 400

[SamBam]

Just had a read through, from the table on LA1 stating weight x 3,4,5 an lx torana weighs in at 1183 kerb weight so 1183x5=5915cc which works out to be 360 cubic inches so a 400 is not possible from those figures. Is there a way around it like just saying its a 350? Or just bite the bullet n sell the block n get a 350 n bore it out to suit 400 crank, rods n pistons?

[dattoman]

If you stroke a 350 its a 383

Still over the limit

So do you care about it being legal and insurable or not ?

[SamBam]

Well the only way to get it regod if going a chev would be with engineers cert. And im confused now since 434 lx showed me that link n he has a 434 in his?

[Bigfella237]

I haven't read up on this for a while but from memory there are no engine size restrictions if you call it an ICV (Individually Constructed Vehicle).

 

BUT (the really big BUT is that) if you call it an ICV you become the "manufacturer" and it has to comply with all the current ADRs the same as if it was a brand new car that left the factory on the day you get it engineered and by the sound of it, the vehicle emmissions alone will be hard to get around.

 

See Third Edition ADRs here: https://www.infrastr...adr_online.aspx

 

As Datto said, you need to consult with an engineer before you spend any more money.

 

I hate to say it but if you're committed to this engine build you may have to consider swapping the Torana for something with a greater (highest factory option) tare weight, for example, a VH Commodore SL/E had a tare of 1370kg which works out to 418 ci?

 

And I'm not even going near the subject of insurance...

[SamBam]

I haven't bought everything yet for the block only block crank rods n pistons. Yeah bit of money already. But im not solely committed to just this engine build, if i have to go to a 350 then I'll be happy with that. The reason i went 400 was from talking with the engine builder he said for ease of gaining more power and having the flexibility to go even better down the track. But i might speak to a few engineers n ask them about possibly doing it as an icv.

[Bigfella237]

Just on a side-note:

 

an 1183kg Torana has a maximum engine size of 5915cc under NCOP

an LS1 engine is 5670cc

an LS2/L76/L98 engine is 5965cc

 

That means an LS2 is just 50cc over the limit but I've seen quite a few 6.0L engines in Toranas, is there some "tollerance" as this is within +/- 1% or are people just fudging the numbers slightly?

 

A difference of 6.25cc per cylinder is litterally a droplet, I'd reckon dome-top pistons or a good block decking would account for more than that?

[SamBam]

So did you go the 350 with icv? How was the process in getting it done that way. I emailed an engineer and surprisingly they got back to me pretty quick on a Sunday, they said id need to justify compliance with ADR exhaust emissions and would be very complex in doing so. For full rego the tare weight times 5 to pass. So doesn't look possible with the 400 to get regod. Soooo next question is how many ppl have got their car regod n on the road and then put a bigger engine in later on? Yes of course insurance won't cover IF there was an accident but we all know how precious these cars are so always gotta look out for the nuff nuffs on the road!

[SamBam]

Hahaha im glad you wont hold a grudge against me for going bigger! I do like the idea of a 400 so i might have to change the plan a bit now. Ive only got the block scat crank rods n pistons so i could always get a cheap 350 block and use the crank but im not sure if the rods n pistons would fit in? Yes or no? So i could get the car regod again then when the time comes but the 400 in

[SamBam]

I do feel like an idiot for not completely checking with an engineer first, i spoke to archie in Bayswater about putting a 350 in n he said yep no probs so when discussing between the 350 n 400 with the engine builderhe recommended the 400 for ease of gaining alot more. Juat gotta think of the positives, i have the block so i can still do it later on just not straight away. I guess new plan of attack is use a 350 block, i can use the crank if its no drama n just keep the rods n pistons till im ready. Even if i do a budget build now just to get it on the road then beef it right up!

[SamBam]

I didnt actually think of that, i might look into that and see how much $$ im looking at for a 350ci crate motor and yeah like you said do the 400 on the side. Thanks heaps mate Thats made me feel a whole lot better!

[wot179]

400 rods are shorter.

[wot179]

https://books.google... length&f=false

[SamBam]

Awesome thanks bomber!! I'll start saving me coins!

https://books.google... length&f=false

Ah wel there ya go! Learn something new everyday! Cheers mate!

[myss427]

You are Ok to go up to 6.3 litre, its based on the heaviest Torana which is the A9X at over 1250 kgs.

[Bigfella237]

From: http://www.gmh-toran...7862-a9x-specs/

 

LH L34 Sedan:
Kerb Weight: 1306 kg

 

LX A9X Sedan:
Kerb Weight: 1306kg

 

LX A9X Hatchback:
Kerb Weight: 1242kg

 

So it seems under NCOP we have a maximum allowable engine capacity for a Torana Sedan of 6530cc (398.485ci)

 

And for Hatch a maximum capacity of 6210cc (378.957ci)

 

You're getting closer Sammy, I figure a 400ci Chev is a bee's dick under 6555cc so now you're only 25cc away (assuming a sedan), that's less than half a percent over the limit.

 

It may be worth confirming whether the 400ci figure is exact or a marketing term and then going back to your engineer with the correct values?

[SamBam]

From: http://www.gmh-toran...7862-a9x-specs/
 
LH L34 Sedan:
Kerb Weight: 1306 kg
 
LX A9X Sedan:
Kerb Weight: 1306kg
 
LX A9X Hatchback:
Kerb Weight: 1242kg
 
So it seems under NCOP we have a maximum allowable engine capacity for a Torana Sedan of 6530cc (398.485ci)
 
And for Hatch a maximum capacity of 6210cc (378.957ci)
 
You're getting closer Sammy, I figure a 400ci Chev is a bee's dick under 6555cc so now you're only 25cc away (assuming a sedan), that's less than half a percent over the limit.
 
It may be worth confirming whether the 400ci figure is exact or a marketing term and then going back to your engineer with the correct values?

Yeah ive got a sedan so just under!! I'll let him know about the weight figures you found and if he asks i can always print off the page and show him. Maybe maybe it could be a 383 chev on paper so it's under the cc limit. I'll see what he says n even ring a few n let you know the answer