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Seat mounting under NCOP


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#1 _Bomber Watson_

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Posted 05 March 2015 - 07:39 PM

Hey guys, i've read section LK of the NCOP trying to find an answer but, alas, cant. 

 

Im remounting the DS seat in my LJ as im unhappy with how i did it first time around, and at the same time mounting a fixed back SAAS of similar vintage in the passenger side. 

 

Now, I dont really want to be able to adjust them backwards and fowards. Considering im the only one who will ever drive it, its irrelevant, and the passenger seat has no real need either. 

 

Now i know that the fixed back is fine because 4 door LJ's had factory fixed back seats, but im wondering if theres any requirement to actually have the seat adjustable fore and aft under the NCOP, seeing though the LJ from factory the seats could more fore and aft. 

 

HOping Andy or one of the other NCOP guru's can help me out here....Save me trying to get any sence out of the local mod plate lads (cars already modplated for code LK so i was just going to keep the mods quiet.....)

 

Will make fabrication of new, neater brackets much easyer. 

 

Cheers. 


Edited by Bomber Watson, 05 March 2015 - 07:40 PM.


#2 EunUCh

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Posted 06 March 2015 - 06:16 PM

From page 12 NCOP,seat requirements.

 

1.2 Seat Anchorage Location
"Replacement seats must be located so that the occupant’s seating reference point is as close
as possible to that of the original seat."


"Front seats must face forward and be parallel to the longitudinal centreline of the vehicle."       (whoever thought that up was froking brilliant :) )
"Seats should be located so as to allow freedom of adjustment throughout the complete range of
travel."

Seems like you will get away with fixed back as per the ADR's but still needs to move back and forth,the complying and non complying seat might be another issue because they say that a complying seat is !

 

"A complying seat means a seat that already complies with the appropriate clauses of ADR 3/...,
VSB 5A or VSB 5B. e.g. an original seat taken from a production vehicle that complies with the
ADRs is a complying seat, providing the seat is in good condition and unmodified."

 

There may be another section that refers to "after market" seating being fitted and if there is ,one would just hope that the after market job would "comply" to some ADR or Australian Standard design feature/s.Most of the well known brands would more than likely exceed the ADR of the day,after all,a lot of them are used in race cars,but then we have some poor deluded idiot/s saying
that fitting a better than factory spec. part/s saying...no no no, you can't do that on a street car because that is racing equipment???, these idiots that talk safety and and preservation of life absolutely amaze me when you can not fit a full cage or other safety enhancing parts to preserve life in the event of the worst case happening..absolutely froking amazing?

 

Have not read all of NCOP but ffs,that section and probably others need a major revamp,no reference/s to other sections that may be applicable.
jumpy through the hoopies...and we pay for this privelage?



#3 _Bomber Watson_

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Posted 06 March 2015 - 07:25 PM

We both read the wording differently there. 
 
"Seats should be located so as to allow freedom of adjustment throughout the complete range of
travel."
 
I read that as saying that a seat must be able to move through any range of travel unimpeded, ie if the seat reclines it cant hit on anything through the range of reclining. Same with sliding backwards and forwards, it shouldnt catch on anything. WHich is fair. 
 
It doesnt actually say anything about whether or not the new seat needs to maintain all functions of a factory fitted seat. 
 
I do know that, for example, a LJ 2 door must have flip forward front seats, this is an occupant safety issue, obviously so rear seat passengers can get out quickly without having to recline a seat forwards with a dial. 
 
There is nothing stating though that the seats need to maintain all original range of motion...After all if this was the case wouldnt cops be defecting cars for aftermarket seat rails that travel 5mm less forward than stock seat rails?
 
I think its a nice grey area. Im probably going to go ahead and mount the seats how i see fit, the car is already mod plated for code LK. 
 
Both seats are ADR compliant. 
 
Cheers. 


#4 Rockoz

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Posted 06 March 2015 - 07:56 PM

Thinking with you Bomber

If it has no travel then the rest is redundant



#5 EunUCh

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Posted 06 March 2015 - 08:12 PM

Both seats ADR compliant would mean no probs. means that they comply.

The bit about "Seats should be located so as to allow freedom of adjustment throughout the complete range of

travel."... could mean that even though the particular model was fitted with "stiff backs" is ok,but could also mean that because they were fitted with "stiff back" but 

were moveable forward and backward but had no "recline' might mean that the forward/backward movement may need to be retained regardless of recline function

which it did not have according to applicable ADR of the time.?

Nevertheless,as long as the seat is mounted to the floor in some way/shape or form and allows the occupant to face forward at least falls within the guidelines of

ADR's.

:dontknow: will need to spend more time decifering that one :)



#6 _Bomber Watson_

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Posted 06 March 2015 - 08:18 PM

I see what your saying, but still politely disagree, probably because i want to be right, not to be right in the arguement but because if im right then i can mount my seats how i want haha. 

 

EG my drivers seat is reclining. So i read that as the seat must be able to recline fully forward and backward without anything else (B pillar, door handle, rear seat, etc) impeding its movement. If the seat is mounted in such a way that it has no forward or backwards movement then no issue, as nothing can impede its movement due to there being no movement.....

 

But the passenger side seat being fixed back, if it was mounted in a fixed position, pretty much negates that paragraph.....

 

If i can, i would like to mount them on fabricated 6mm mild steel brackets, similar to this:

45A8F0C4-58D3-42F9-9A59-4392581F130B_zps

 

There will be a bend at the bottom of the bracket so part of the plate sits against the floor and picks up the factory bolt holes, and another bend at the top to pick up the seat mounting holes (there underneath as opposed to on the sides as in the picture. 

 

If the seats had mounting provisions in the sides that would be real nice, as i would be able to work in a level of height and recline adjustablility like in the picture, but they dont, so i'll have to live with it. 

 

Cheers. 


Edited by Bomber Watson, 06 March 2015 - 08:22 PM.


#7 EunUCh

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Posted 06 March 2015 - 08:31 PM

Nice little grey area indeed :) ,read that bit as well with all the angles and stuff but a lot was seat/seat belt related?

no arguments from me :), interisting , just do it and get her on the road :)



#8 N/A-PWR

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Posted 06 March 2015 - 08:32 PM

I remember reading somewhere,

 

that the drivers seat needs to be adjusted so that a driver can get the correct line of view.



#9 _Bomber Watson_

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Posted 06 March 2015 - 08:34 PM

Yeah the angles are seat belt related.



#10 EunUCh

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Posted 06 March 2015 - 09:08 PM

The way i see it...original seat with no recline but had fore/aft adjustment for that model.

 

Place replacement seat in position as per factory and ADR specs.within the guidelines of angles etc. (which would have changed with adjustment of seat to suit driver and passenger depending on persons physical status,).

 

Replacement seat meets the ADR and and Australian Standards,fit seat to within those guidelines as stipulated and bolt it down with 4 bolts to the floor mounts,or if an "adapter" plate/bracket is used it should be of no less than of "general fabrication standards" using materials that are equal or above the adequate/standard of today's quality.

Who wants to drive around in something that has been bodged?

 

ps.. the braketry in another thread looks ok...to say the least.  :)



#11 Rockoz

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Posted 07 March 2015 - 08:14 AM

If they argue that they want adjustment, extra hole drilled may cover that as it doesnt mention means of adjustment.

Grey rules are good only if you and the inspector agree, or you can turn the inspector to your way of thinking.



#12 _Bomber Watson_

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Posted 07 March 2015 - 08:51 AM

Agreed.

#13 EunUCh

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Posted 08 March 2015 - 06:59 PM

Don't use stainless bolts for anchoring things,Metric 8.8 or Imp.grade 5 is easy.

 

no mention of "nutserts" other than looked up push/pull strengths and should imagine provided they are equivalent or better than

original sheer/pull limits than the original bolt/nut had, no problems.

 

The "nutsert" seems to have a different pull/push out force so put them in the right way for application and should be good,from my extravagant memory loss i think the push/pull  let go of "nutsert" is close to 10:1.

:)






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