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Extractors size pipes for 308 LX Torana

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#1 _Wings355_

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Posted 31 March 2015 - 10:24 AM

Hey Guys and Gals,

 

I had my LX Torana on the Dyno and my Extractors are too small for the engine, they are 1 5/8, she flat lined at about 400HP as couldn't get rid of the gas.

 

What is the biggest size i can run on my LX Hatchback Torana, 308 Holden engine, she is Stroked to 355.

 

Also, who sells them, as nobody in Perth i can find.?

 

Thanks,

Russell



#2 Redslur

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Posted 31 March 2015 - 11:06 AM

Are they red heads or VN heads? Pacemaker do a 1 7/8 from memory in red heads. Definitely do them in VN style as I have them on mine.  Plenty big enough for your set up.



#3 mick_in_oz

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Posted 31 March 2015 - 09:52 PM

If the pipes are built right a 1 5/8" primary tri-y will support 550 odd HP, even with a 355. True merged collectors at all joins and getting the lengths right will make you thing you have a whole new engine. Might be cheaper and better to find someone that knows what they are doing and get the current pipes modified.



#4 _Wings355_

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Posted 01 April 2015 - 12:51 AM

Thanks for the info,

 

I have the L-34 red iron heads, a lot of work done to them to make it breath. If these extractors are correct, then 550hp should not be a problem. I think they are gene or pacemaker, I can't remember and don't have my paperwork with me now.

 

Will talk to my Dyno man as i was thinking about my I.C.E. Ignition system and the rev limiter setting might have screw me up if set too low.? don't know but worth looking into.

 

Thanks again,

Russell



#5 rexy

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Posted 01 April 2015 - 06:42 AM

What's the rest of your engine combo?

#6 _Wings355_

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Posted 01 April 2015 - 10:44 AM

Here is a list of the Engine parts, ect or close enough to get the idea.

 

They are genie extractors, was just thinking about my 2" twin exhaust system, that could be holding me back.?

 

 

Holden Torana Hatchback (22,000klm's)

Weight 1150kg

 

Blue printed and balanced 308 stroked to 355 "Harrop crank"

Runs unleaded fuel 98% octane

Worked L34 Heads

Yella terra roller rockers

Crane 304A cam

L34 valves, upgraded valve springs, Seal power push rods

10:1 compression

Holley HP 650 4 bbl D/P with Racing air filter (Heaps of Vacuum)

Elderbrock performer high rise manifold

I.C.E electronic ignition system with 8mm Leads

Full length Genie Extractors

Heavy duty 800cc gel battery

Big Alloy 500HP+ radiator, twin thermo fans

Full glimmer 10,000 rpm belt system

Heavy duty alternator

Twin 2" exhaust system with flow thru glass packed mufflers and balance pipe

 

Tricked stage 2 auto, tough trimatic gearbox with all German frictions

Alloy Gearbox oil cooler

More Stall Converter

 

Original LSD diff, 2.78 ratio with globe 5 star 13" Bathurst mags


Edited by Wings355, 01 April 2015 - 10:46 AM.


#7 Redslur

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Posted 01 April 2015 - 11:25 AM

I can see at least 3 limitations there that would be holding you back straight away. A dual 2" system being the first. I suggest dual 2 1/2 for anything over 400hp.

 

Although the Edelbrock Performers are great street manifolds, they hold you back in the top end and only produce good power to about 5500 rpm. Same goes for the Crane 304A cams. Had exactly the same combo in my last 308.

 

I also reckon a 750 Holley would go towards increasing power too. I went from a 670 to a 770 and picked up about 20 RWHP. My engine combo was very similar to yours but non stroked.

 

With these changes the extractors would probable be sufficient for your needs.

 

All comes down to how much mumbo you're chasing. With your current set up I don't think you will get much more than your 400hp. Change the exhaust size first and you may get a decent increase though.

 

Others may have different ideas but this is based on my 308/355 experiences.



#8 _Wings355_

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Posted 01 April 2015 - 12:07 PM

Thanks for the heads up mate,

 

I think the first thing i need to do and the cheapest is to check the rev limiter setting with my ignition system. That is the question, how much HP do i want.? She is very smart now with the 400HP and the extra $$$$ to increase it, I just don't know but thinking about it,

 

The old story, How fast you want to go is how much you want to spend.

 

The 2 1/2" exhaust system i can do easy.

 

Thanks,

Russell


Edited by Wings355, 01 April 2015 - 12:11 PM.


#9 _sbc57lx_

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Posted 01 April 2015 - 02:53 PM

First thing I'd do..........    up grade the DIFF,   



#10 rexy

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Posted 01 April 2015 - 04:23 PM

I presume that's a calculated 400 at the flywheel?
As others have suggested that might be in the reasonable ballpark for your combo.

#11 mick_in_oz

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Posted 01 April 2015 - 08:28 PM

Nowhere enough compression to run the 304A, it'll need at least 11.5:1, I'd probably be trying to put more like 12:1 in it for that cam, that's the first major hurdle.

 

The performer will be ok if it has had a good amount of time spent on it by someone that knows their sh!t. Lots better option would be a Strip Master or torque power Single plane, actually any decent simple plane will be better than the performer, but that said, Craig from Torque Power loves the performer and has made very good HP figures with them.

 

The 650 Holley as has already been mentioned is too small for 355 with that cam.

 

How much converter does it have? its gonna have to be 5000-5500, maybe even more with the low 10:1 comp ratio, the 2.78:1 diff ratio is a problem, 3.55, more like 3.9 or 4.11 to make the 304A happy.

 

I'm sure it would benefit from the pipes being modded, merged and lengthened, and the 2" system changed to a 2 1/2" with something like Race Magnums and some nice mandrel bent tail pipes.

 

You have some nice sounding stuff but unfortunately have a number of small and not so small mistakes all to overcome or to try to improve on. For me, a more suitable diff ratio, smaller cam or lots more compression, suitable converter and more suitable carb might see you with a big smile for not an unreasonable amount of money. I'd probably lean towards a smaller cam to work with the low compression and maybe advance it somewhat, and it could easily make lots more power than you have now, be better on fuel, be lots better down low and be more tolerant of what I'm guessing will be a tallish diff ratio (3.55?) 

 

From someone that's been there done that, an over cammed under comped under converted car is a huge dissapiontment, only good thing about it is that it wont turn the tyres off the start line while out the road having a play...

 

Good luck with it!


Edited by mick_in_oz, 01 April 2015 - 08:28 PM.


#12 _Wings355_

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Posted 02 April 2015 - 12:33 AM

Thanks for the info, Yes the combo is not quite right and i do understand what i need to do now. Looks like back to the drawing board and sort my little girl out. Lol.

 

Thanks guys,

Russell



I presume that's a calculated 400 at the flywheel?
As others have suggested that might be in the reasonable ballpark for your combo.

 

Yes, 400HP at the flywheel.

 

The converter is a More-stall, about 1200-1400rpm, I was running a come 222 before and changed to the crane 304A with the rollers, that was my stuff up thinking like a 18 year old. LOL

 

Thanks,

Russell


Edited by Wings355, 02 April 2015 - 12:38 AM.


#13 _Wings355_

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Posted 02 April 2015 - 01:18 AM

On the open road cruising at 115klms at 3000rpm and put the foot into her she will get to 180klms in about 3-4 seconds and still pulling hard, i backed off as speed kills.

 

At 160klms cruising and put the foot to her she puts me back in the seat like from the start and will lift the front left side up, a lot of torque, scared the shit out of me. Lol

 

When she gets to the 3000rpm in any gear all hell breaks loose, so my set up now seems to work at the 3000rpm mark

 

From the start, she will light up the wheels (13" wheels, 205/60/13)

 

I hope this gives you an idea about my set up i have now.

 

Thanks,

Russell



#14 IMORAL

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Posted 02 April 2015 - 08:56 AM

Ive got a 355. Has 17/8 primaries and twin 3" system. Had a 750 on it when it was on pump fuel. Has 410 at the treads. No exhaust problems. Ive got VN heads

You exhaust sounds way too small along with your wheels ;)



#15 Redslur

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Posted 02 April 2015 - 11:36 AM

I am basing my comments on your cam being the hydraulic CCH304A which is only a mid strength and a fairly mild cam with only 236 @ 50  and 520" lift.  Which I have used with fantastic results in a 308.  By the sounds of it Mick in Oz is talking about the bigger CC304 mechanical cam which does need heaps more comp and headwork, gears etc.

 

Just thought I would clarify this so you know what we are talking about.



#16 _Wings355_

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Posted 02 April 2015 - 12:56 PM

Thanks for the heads up about my cam.

 

Yes, my cam is the Crane CC304A  hydraulic, anti pump-up lifters and rollers, just installed a few months ago. 

 

I am away at work now and will be in Perth 13-April and will have my rev limiter checked out to see what rev's it is set at. I am still very happy with the power she has got but thinking about a bit more, Dam, is like a drug, i just can't stop playing with it, Lol

 

Thanks again,

Russell



#17 Redslur

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Posted 02 April 2015 - 01:30 PM

They a great hydraulic cam. I put one in my last 308 I built and got 350 hp out of it. Pretty good for a hydraulic cam. You would have nice torque with your set up.  Fine tune things, do the larger exhaust, change your diff ratio and you will have an easy 12 second car :-)

 

Enjoy the subtle changes as they come to fruition...you will be very happy..



#18 _Wings355_

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Posted 02 April 2015 - 11:34 PM

Yes mate, this engine has so much Torque at 160klms she will still put you back in the seat and lift the front. She is a very strong engine but as you say, a bit of fine tuning to do.

 

My plan to start with will be:

 

1. Check the rev limiter and change to 5,800rpm or to the cam spec's, or the max i should go to. I think the cam is good for 5,800rpm.

 

2. Change to the 2 1/2" or 3" exhaust system and back on the Dyno and see what i have.

 

Thanks too all of you for your input.

Russell

 

Will report back in a few months when i have done the changes, its going to take me that long as i work away and not much time in Perth.



#19 N/A-PWR

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Posted 22 May 2016 - 01:21 PM



#20 LC-GTR-1969

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Posted 22 May 2016 - 01:42 PM

Holden Torana Hatchback (22,000klm's)

Weight 1150kg

 

Wow, my LC weighs that... why/ how so light? 






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