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valve seals 202

Started by _m.mcarthur_ , May 04 2015 04:42 PM

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#1 _m.mcarthur_

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Posted 04 May 2015 - 04:42 PM

what is the best in valve stem seals umbreller , hastings or the little flat o rings that come in standard head set. who stocks better quality seals  supa cheap cant do only std o ring type. thanks for any comments. muza


#2 EunUCh

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Posted 04 May 2015 - 04:48 PM

A special tool is needed to cut the guide boss,and a special tool to fit them,they are a tight fit.

http://www.jegs.com/...354636/10002/-1

 


#3 _m.mcarthur_

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Posted 05 May 2015 - 07:55 AM

I meant to say there are umbreller  type valve seals on it at the moment but seemingly cant buy off the shelf??


#4 _oldjohnno_

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Posted 05 May 2015 - 09:29 AM

The umbrella seals work well with daily driver type engines. Your local head or engine reconditioner should have some or get them through ebay : http://www.ebay.com....=item259da9f2da

Replace the oring seals while you're at it.


#5 _Macca97_

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Posted 05 May 2015 - 08:10 PM

not even running any oring seals on mine, tiny bit of blue smoke on start up but that's it, local engine builder doesn't bother putting exhaust valve stem seals on the 6's or v8's


#6 SA EH

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Posted 05 May 2015 - 09:53 PM

^Really?
Although I fail to see what good those pathetic black o-rings at the top of the valve do anyway...

#7 EunUCh

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Posted 05 May 2015 - 10:18 PM

Not sure what oldjonno meant but he probably meant that a hard worker would need a bit more oil getting down to the dry area,some of the early v8 had a "rifled" guide which meant they were an oil pumper from factory,the valves were not vertical so whatever oil was getting splashed around up top would find it's way down the guide regardless of the poxy o ring,six had vertical config. but the same poxy o ring ,but might not have had the same probs. as the 8 with the oil splashing around but who knows?


Edited by EunUCh, 05 May 2015 - 10:19 PM.

#8 _oldjohnno_

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Posted 06 May 2015 - 06:34 AM

^Really?
Although I fail to see what good those pathetic black o-rings at the top of the valve do anyway...

 

See point number two of this list - http://oldjohnno.id.au/pageADD.html

 

Most of the oil comes from the top down - from the top of the retainer down through the gaps in the collets and then down the stem. That's why the little o ring has to be a snug fit in the retainer and it's why they'll smoke a bit on startup if the o ring goes hard and shrinks a little. Some builders go so far as to seal the tops of the collets with a little 518 or similar.

 

I like the umbrellas for a daily because they don't require any machining, they'll control the oil even if the guides are a bit on the loose side and you can usually pick them up for a buck or so each. I always use some sort of seal on every valve, even if it's only to stop the back of the valve heads from becoming coked up. Leaving them out altogether is just dumb.


Edited by oldjohnno, 06 May 2015 - 06:40 AM.

#9 SA EH

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Posted 06 May 2015 - 07:34 AM

Thanks mate, I'll admit I didn't read the link....

#10 basicgreen

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Posted 06 May 2015 - 01:17 PM

i think my engine man puts ford ones on they are blue think of eb ??


#11 _m.mcarthur_

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Posted 07 May 2015 - 11:06 AM

thanks to you all for this info, a little confused re the o ring seals along with the umberella valve seals haven't got head off yet Do the o ring seals go on under the umbrellas prob a dumb question but IQ down into danger zone.ay.


#12 _oldjohnno_

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Posted 08 May 2015 - 05:33 PM

Don't be embarrassed, we're happy to make allowances for kiwis... :stirpot:

 

The o ring fits in the groove in the valve stem underneath the valve locks (or collets or whatever) and seals the retainer to the valve.


#13 Com_VC

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Posted 04 June 2020 - 08:19 PM

Sorry for digging up an old thread, but is it worth fitting up these umbreller type seals?  Is any machining required or will they just go straight on any Holden 6 head?


Will I still need to run the actual valve stem seal on the valve (o ring)?

 

https://www.ebay.com...3IAAOSw0EJczYvt

 

Here are the falcon ones which someone above said should work as well.

 

https://www.ebay.com...&frcectupt=true


#14 76lxhatch

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Posted 04 June 2020 - 08:32 PM

Both sets you linked to are positive seals that will require some basic machining of the upper end of the valve guides in the head to fit. They are the best style if you are able to machine the head but they really need to be removed to do so.

 

The original o-ring seals are basically an umbrella seal as all they do is deflect oil to avoid as much running down the valve stem into the guide. Although most wouldn't call them that due to the size of them, typically an umbrella seal has a little more size for maximum deflection.


#15 Com_VC

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Posted 04 June 2020 - 10:43 PM

What sort of machining is required?  Would a low end milling machine do the job?  Removing the head is not an issue.


#16 76lxhatch

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Posted 05 June 2020 - 07:24 AM

Pretty basic machining, just need to get the outer diameter correct and consistent (they are normally just as-cast) and height correct for full open. Most people buy a premade cutter tool that does it all for you like this:

https://www.summitra.../parts/cca-4726 (plus arbor)

You can get away with using these with a hand-held drill if you're steady enough. Just make sure the tool cutting diameter matches the seals you choose (and they clear the springs, etc)


#17 Com_VC

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Posted 06 June 2020 - 10:09 AM

Ok thanks for that, looks pretty simple and straight forward.

 

So it would still be best to run the o ring on the valve as well as the new style positive seal?


#18 I'm a Red Motor fiend

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Posted 06 June 2020 - 10:42 AM

Just the positive seal.
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