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NSW Newcastle - Ringwood Hillclimb

elecronc ingn. failure

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#1 RallyRed

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Posted 24 May 2015 - 09:50 PM

Hi,

Had a good day at the above today, with Steve ( Dodgey ).

Unfortunately, both cars suffered some minor issues.

Steve sorted his out and powered on.

My LJ seemed to just  miss and fart more as the day went on.

Woundnt idle for sh$#t,  and was backfiring thru the Webers??...all of them, in a random pattern

 

After getting home and doing the obvious, i.e. draining my fuel tank and refilling with fresh fuel, as the old stuff was a month or two old, ,checking plugs, doing a comp.test, checking fuel bowls for crap, checking distributor, coil, leads etc etc,,,,ending up finding my new Bosch electronic dizzy was a bit random on the advance.( this dizzy had done several club / track days without issue)

 

This dizzy is only a few months old,,,looks like it has had a failure in the advance thingo??

Note the ""loose"" plastic bit flapping around (on the end of the red screwdriver)??

Anyone else had this type  of issue?....I assume its a warranty / failure claim.

Ta

Col

 

p.s. loosening the dizzy off and and twisting it a bit in the block resulted in the car running just fine, so happy it is the root cause of the the current issue.

 

 

 

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#2 Dodgey

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Posted 25 May 2015 - 05:11 PM

Col

Glad you have determined the cause of your problems. Was a shame you had to leave early.

Still not 100% sure what caused my issue but believe it to be fuel related. For those reading this, the engine shut down on one run and would not re-start. Checks determined there was spark & fuel. I think the problem was a fuel vapour lock caused by the fuel tank not breathing, as it did finally re-start. Since last time I ran the car I have fitted a screw-on (total seal) fuel filler cap and I think my breather is not sufficient for this set-up. I have re-routed my breather and will see how it goes next Sunday.



#3 RallyRed

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Posted 25 May 2015 - 07:11 PM

Good one Steve,

 

Not sure that pic is the issue after all...I am advised by Mr Dynotune guy, that the white bit is just  the end of some tape they wrap around the coil to add extra insulation ( at the factory). Showed me 2 more BNIB that were similar, but not exactly the same.

Spent some time dicking around in the shed this arvo....got it running fine and drives as good as ever....I reckon the issue may be some slop in the rotor button to shaft keyway/key.

I seem to be able to rotate the button   about 3  -  4 degrees back and forward without moving the shaft?

Thus is that was to happen in service, assume the timing would be out by that much, thus the backfire thru the carbies as seen on Sunday?

( was able to replicate this today)

 

Will take the dizzy back  to him tomorrow and see what he says.  The assumption here is that the rotor button should be a solid fix onto the shaft , with no change of angle possible ( excluding the normal advance mech. )

 

Any advice welcome

Col



#4 _Agent 34_

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Posted 25 May 2015 - 07:54 PM

Steve - what pump do you run on the tank - electric or mechanical off motor ?- i had a fuel starve issue - but it was float related-

how much fuel did you have in the tank and was loosing it's pump via sucking air ?

i always carry a can of " start ya bastard " it soon tells me if it's fuel of spark with the spray of the can down the throat !

 

col - how the hell did you see that how much was the dizzy ?

 

both of the above are enough to piss you off - won't fully stop but wont fully go !

 

lucky i didn't go i would have caught something off the two of you LOL!

 

g



#5 RallyRed

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Posted 25 May 2015 - 08:51 PM

ha ha Grant...yeah, it was like a Torana virus that swept across us!!

Dizzy was around $280, fitted ( as part of a dyno)..not sure electronic ones are Ok for Nc??



#6 Dodgey

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Posted 26 May 2015 - 08:11 PM

ha ha Grant...yeah, it was like a Torana virus that swept across us!!

You guys could be onto something. My car made a pretty quick recovery once Col took his home!

 

On a more serious note - I still run a mechanical pump on the side of the block - a Chevy blue flame six pump. I had 15L > 20L in the tank but this should have been plently. I have run it lower in the past.



#7 _Agent 34_

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Posted 27 May 2015 - 09:07 PM

any news Col on the investigation of the issue 

 

 

G.

 

See Steve - don't fix something that was not broken, just don't fill over 50%. seems weird that the breather is being that restrictive maybe it's blocked ?



#8 RallyRed

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Posted 27 May 2015 - 09:40 PM

Hi Grant....yeah, after putting the dizzy back in, and doing a rough time job, took it for a drive and all is well?

Thus, it would seem that the issue was related to the timing..i.e the distributor must have moved a little bit.....I still reckon I was tight....but since all is now perfect...don't know what else it could be??

Now to buy some new foam filter socks to replace the ones that went up in smoke as a result of the backfire thru the carby caper!!...ha ha .

 

Will do a  proper timing effort, and test run again later in the week....I think it runs around 12 degrees>...sound about right?



#9 _Agent 34_

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Posted 28 May 2015 - 06:25 PM

the GTR was quiet advanced - i have it written down somewhere - but 16 sounds somewhere right.

 

the race car i have not moved at all from where the dot to dots line up on the dizzy and block.- i actually don't know what the race car is.

 

if the dizzy has not been out then put a white dot where it currently sits OR a center punch mark for a base point or reference - it must be pretty close from the dyno.

 

funny how things just vibrate loose on these motors even after tightening when cold.



#10 RallyRed

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Posted 02 June 2015 - 11:04 AM

all good, unable to find anything else wrong.

Might have a go at this one at Ringwood...21 st June,  each run to consist of 2 laps of top loop, as well as the actual hillclimb.

 

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#11 LC-GTR-1969

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Posted 02 June 2015 - 06:55 PM

Hi Grant....yeah, after putting the dizzy back in, and doing a rough time job, took it for a drive and all is well?

Thus, it would seem that the issue was related to the timing..i.e the distributor must have moved a little bit.....I still reckon I was tight....but since all is now perfect...don't know what else it could be??

Now to buy some new foam filter socks to replace the ones that went up in smoke as a result of the backfire thru the carby caper!!...ha ha .

 

Will do a  proper timing effort, and test run again later in the week....I think it runs around 12 degrees>...sound about right?

 

Mate, I have experienced a similar issue with the electric dizzy...

 

Happened twice to me... 

 

The timing would shift and started running like shyte... poping and farting etc...

 

After much investigation and a lot of cursing, I pulled my dizzy right down and found the keyway for the reluctor had sheared- this meant that the reluctor wheel was able to free spin... as it was still quite tight it only moved a small amount but enough to cause issues. 

 

I put a new reluctor and key, but happened again a while later... turned out the clearance between the reluctor and the outside mag points were fouling and causing the key to shear.

 

Hence, whilst its running now, I would certainly check this as its plausible it could be your issue. If the key has sheared, it will kinda hold timing setting for a while but with inertia the timing will start to wander over time as the reluctor spins on the shaft.

 

Once you take the rotor button off, you can remove the circlip using circlip pliers, then pull the reluctor and check whether the key is in-tact. If its shagged, I recoommend installing a roll-pin and being anal with the clearances between the reluctor and the mag pick ups.



#12 RallyRed

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Posted 02 June 2015 - 07:03 PM

LC-GTR-1969

Now ..........that is a great bit of info mate....ta.

Like i said , I didnt think it had mooved in the engine block hole as it was tight.

I'll whip it out tomorrow and eyeball it....see if that is what's doing .

 

Thanks ....that is one one of the real strengths of this forum., people sharing real life experiences.



#13 LC-GTR-1969

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Posted 02 June 2015 - 07:20 PM

LC-GTR-1969

Now ..........that is a great bit of info mate....ta.

Like i said , I didnt think it had mooved in the engine block hole as it was tight.

I'll whip it out tomorrow and eyeball it....see if that is what's doing .

 

Thanks ....that is one one of the real strengths of this forum., people sharing real life experiences.

No worries mate,

 

My best advice is to grab the reluctor with left hand whilst the dizzy is still in the motor, and with the right hand hold the rotor button...

 

Then, try to turn the reluctor with some force whilst holding the rotor button... if all is right, the reluctor should not move independent of the rotor button... if the key has sheared, the reluctor will turn when the rotor button is staying still... (you will need a bit of force as they wedge tight, even when key has sheared)



#14 RallyRed

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Posted 02 June 2015 - 09:37 PM

okey dokey..by reluctor, Im taking that to be the black / grey  discy thing with the 6 points on it ( see pic earlier in this thread )



#15 Dodgey

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Posted 03 June 2015 - 09:54 PM

Might have a go at this one at Ringwood...21 st June,  each run to consist of 2 laps of top loop, as well as the actual hillclimb.

Col

This sounds like fun. I'm going to come up for another crack at the hill. You going to enter?

Steve



#16 _Agent 34_

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Posted 04 June 2015 - 06:35 AM

where's the track located at - tried to google it got the website but no track address 



#17 _ChaosWeaver_

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Posted 04 June 2015 - 08:05 AM

Hope this helps ...  http://www.mgcarclub...au/ringwood.htm

 

I gotta get up and have a look at the next one, specially now I know some of the racers...  well,  Col I met once, but yous know what I mean... :)



#18 RallyRed

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Posted 04 June 2015 - 09:09 AM

yeah guys..entered this morning......apparently club expects it to fill quickly as its a round of a local competition this time...so better enter quick Steve / Grant/Chaos.

$90 , gauranteed 4 runs,

Entry via MEECAMS



#19 Dodgey

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Posted 04 June 2015 - 09:21 PM

My entry is in



#20 RallyRed

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Posted 04 June 2015 - 09:42 PM

Great Steve...

#21 RallyRed

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Posted 04 June 2015 - 09:44 PM

Lc gtr - I had a go at the test you ssuggestedcant fault it. Will do the pull aart/ circlip removal job over the weekend.

#22 RallyRed

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Posted 08 June 2015 - 08:24 PM

removed the circlip and lifted off the disc....keyway looks fine? and the key is cast into the disc?...cant see how the disc and the shaft can move relative to each other?

Pics attached...

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Edited by RallyRed, 08 June 2015 - 08:26 PM.


#23 LC-GTR-1969

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Posted 08 June 2015 - 09:06 PM

removed the circlip and lifted off the disc....keyway looks fine? and the key is cast into the disc?...cant see how the disc and the shaft can move relative to each other?

Pics attached...

 

Yep the Keyway looks fine... the small key/ tooth is fragile so any movement and they shear right off... I really thought that might be it...

 

Sorry for leading you to barking up the wrong tree mate... seemed a real plausible cause... Now I guess you will need to keep searching for clues... not easy and no fun, but when you crack the answer it will be satisfying!



#24 RallyRed

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Posted 08 June 2015 - 09:19 PM

not at all mate...a 20 second job to get that possibility off the table is time well spent in my book, ta.

 

See how it goes.






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