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Electric vacuum pumps for brakes


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#26 rexy

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Posted 23 August 2015 - 10:31 AM

This is the factory switch. I can't find any specs to indicate it's open/close vacuum points (or how the three pins are wired) but figure it should be good enough if it works on the dunnydore.
These pumps don't seem to be on all VE v6. They are on the LLT engines. There is apparently a similar (same?) pump on the turbo diesel Cruze. Might also be on a few other factory forced induction cars?

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#27 rexy

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Posted 15 November 2015 - 03:53 PM

So I had a bit of a fiddle today.
The pump will pull a max of 26 inches of vacuum.
If you get the complete setup off the commodore as part of the lines you get a nice useable one way check valve as below.

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For the life of me I cannot get the vacuum sense switch from the dunnydore to work. I can't find any combination of power in, earth and signal out to produce a signal. As per the pic the three wires are yellow with red, black and purple stripes respectively. I have tried with and without vacuum. I am open to advice from those in the know but at the moment defective switch is the working diagnosis.



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The pump seems pretty quiet.
How much vacuum is too much? Do the boosters have an upper limit they can cope with?

#28 EunUCh

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Posted 15 November 2015 - 04:51 PM

I would hazard a guess and say that the sensor has a modulated AC waveform output that is "read" by other electronics that have been told

when to turn pump on/of within certain parameters, which is why it won't be a simple on/off from the signal wire.



#29 UC308Hatch

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Posted 15 November 2015 - 09:39 PM

So I had a bit of a fiddle today.
The pump will pull a max of 26 inches of vacuum.

How much vacuum is too much? Do the boosters have an upper limit they can cope with?


Good question. My pump switches off at around 20" -22" vac from memory, I did wonder the same thing when I set it up. I guess the answer lies with what sort of vac does a good original factory engine pull? (I don't have one)

I believe you need at least 18" for the booster to give good assistance. But I guess the more vac you have in theory the more assistance, plus the added bonus of a slightly greater vac capacity (sort of)

#30 VZ1_60

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Posted 16 November 2018 - 05:00 PM

Can MickinOz or someone on the forum run through how this is wired / connected?

 

Obviously I can see the large vacuum line to the booster, can't see where the smaller hose runs.

 

Also the electical wiring/plugs would be helpful

 

thanks John

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Edited by VZ1_60, 16 November 2018 - 05:06 PM.


#31 mick_in_oz

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Posted 16 November 2018 - 07:49 PM

The small hose is a vacuum reference directly from the booster.

 

I've gutted a booster fitting and added an additional small vacuum port behind the main port to attach the small line.

 

The small line goes to a Vacuum or Hob switch that has an adjustable diaphragm which is set to turn off at 19" Hg.

 

This switch is simply in series with the motor on the Vacuum pump, below about 17" Hg the switch is activated and turns on the pump, once 19" Hg is reached the switch turns off stopping the pump.

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#32 VZ1_60

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Posted 18 November 2018 - 12:54 PM

The small hose is a vacuum reference directly from the booster.

 

I've gutted a booster fitting and added an additional small vacuum port behind the main port to attach the small line.

 

The small line goes to a Vacuum or Hob switch that has an adjustable diaphragm which is set to turn off at 19" Hg.

 

This switch is simply in series with the motor on the Vacuum pump, below about 17" Hg the switch is activated and turns on the pump, once 19" Hg is reached the switch turns off stopping the pump.

 

thank you, cheers



#33 rexy

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Posted 15 January 2019 - 01:10 PM

Update.
I am a terrible procrastinator and easily distracted by other things.

Finally got around to completing the install.

Made a bracket to hold the pump on the inner guard. Used the factory rubber insulated nuts and bolts to mount the pump to the bracket.

Initially set up with one of these switches.


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DO NOT waste your money on one of these. I should have paid closer attention to the rubbish feedback on Summit. It’s the same vacuum switch you get in the COMP cams kit.

It failed after brief use.

So taking a lead from Mick, I bought a switch from Element 14. Excellent service and arrived the next working day.

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Setting the switch is straightforward. It has a hex grub screw in the vacuum port. 1/16 Allen key required. As delivered it was set at 16 -18 inches of mercury.

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This is the setup I used to calibrate the switch.

#34 rexy

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Posted 15 January 2019 - 01:34 PM

Obviously the black and red leads are connected to a battery.

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You wire either power or earth side to the NC terminal and com terminal. This way the switch is on and runs the pump until the desired vacuum is reached. I set mine to 20 inches. Pump switches off until vacuum falls to 17 inches when it switches back on again. Hysteresis band is fixed in width at 2-3 inches.

I made a beginner error on final install.

Pump would run for a few secs and then would buzz several times a second. Only realised my error when I connected my vacuum calibration rig on car. At this point I found vacuum disappeared as soon as the pump turned off. Vacuum leak!

It’s the pump. It does need to be separated from the rest of the system by a one way valve. I used one of the items that was part of the factory piping. Problem solved!

#35 rexy

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Posted 15 January 2019 - 08:17 PM

Few more notes.

Adjustment of the switch set point is straightforward. Using a 1/16th size Allen key you turn it out (anticlockwise) to lower the set point. Approximately a half turn changed mine to 15 inches. Turning it in (clockwise) approx a half turn from factory gave me 20 inches.

NC stands for normally closed. This means the circuit has current flow and the connected device (pump in this case) will run. It runs until the switch activates at 20 inches vacuum. This causes the circuit to become open. This means no current flow and pump is off. Use the brakes and vacuum falls. Once it gets down to 17 inches vacuum the switch activates again and returns to closed. Current flows and the pump is on again.

Total cost?

Pump was $100. Make sure you get all the factory vacuum lines. This will give you elbow, tee piece and one way valve.
Switch was $54 delivered from Element 14.
If you don’t have a vacuum gauge, $35 from total tools.
Test light. $10 ish.
Plastic tee piece, test leads $10 ish.
50 cc catheter tip syringe.
Extra brass elbow $8
3/8 brake vacuum hose 10mm heater hose and washer size small hose. ?$20.
Few electrical connectors and bits of wire $15.
Steel plate to make bracket. Free from scrap bin or less than $20.
Welding odds and ends.
Bolts to secure bracket to car. $4.

If like most folk you already have the small odds and ends in the shed it should cost you about $160 plus your time.

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#36 nc gtr

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Posted 19 January 2019 - 03:26 PM

I used vac pump from 2007-2009 Volvo. Same pump as VE but it has a T with all check valves an switch in one . Got for $30 from pick a part pump and switch together.
It works grate. Just cut vac line from engine to booster installed T ,put power to switch output of switch to relay to switch pump on.
Below picture of switch. Volvo one easier to find than VE. It is on passengers side bolted to chassis rail just behind radiator. Hid it behind motor no one has picked it yet.Attached File  ADC02A31-4CDF-4DC2-BF43-C1E8E7C8AE30.jpeg   16.43K   5 downloadsAttached File  2D4BAD11-7DC3-49E0-B015-276C040C98FA.jpeg   159.27K   6 downloads

#37 rexy

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Posted 22 January 2019 - 02:18 PM

I reckon that wins tip of the month!

Popped down to the wreckers today.

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Two pumps, one from a Volvo wagon, the other from a supercharged Mercedes.
Took the complete setups with vacuum switches, quick connectors, vacuum hoses grommets, valves and mounting brackets.
Few other useful bits of hose etc.

$50 for the lot.

The pumps are the hella UP28.

Volvo.

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Vacuum switch circled in yellow.
Red line is brake hose to booster.
Green arrow is wiring to switch.

Take as much as you can.

#38 rexy

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Posted 22 January 2019 - 02:26 PM

The Mercedes.

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Easier to remove complete assembly and you can take a greater length of wiring.
Pump is on drivers side as shown.

Blue vin belongs to the Volvo.

Both switches are two wire jobs rather than three on the VE.

#39 nc gtr

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Posted 22 January 2019 - 04:57 PM

Glad you found them. Cheap as and you even have a spare.

#40 rexy

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Posted 07 March 2019 - 10:46 PM

The $30 update.

Well sort of.

Got around to putting a vac pump on the yellow LJ.
I fiddled around with the Volvo switch and found it will maintain 15 inches of vacuum.

i.e will run pump until 15 inches vacuum then switches off. Will restart when vacuum falls below 13 inches.

I realised I didn’t have the switch from the merc when I looked through my pile of wrecker yard treasure. I went back to have a look at the car and it seems the switch is very hard to get at, hidden under the intake manifold.
Did find an Audi with a pump on it. Similarly easy to remove as the Volvo and the Mercedes. Has the same useless three wire switch that the VE has though.

Got the pump installed using a modified portion of the Mercedes bracket. Wired it up and hit start. Pump keeps running and won’t switch off!

Turns out the original booster is rooted.

Got a new big booster from Terry at Hydroboost. Installed and all is good!

Brakes are now excellent.

#41 claysummers

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Posted 08 March 2019 - 07:04 AM

Seen a few cars running un-boosted discs lately. They seem to work fine, though I don’t know what the authorities would say.


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#42 Gunmetal LH

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Posted 16 April 2019 - 02:02 AM

How often does the pump run connected directly to the booster?



#43 rexy

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Posted 16 April 2019 - 07:38 PM

Takes a few seconds of run time when started to trigger the switch to turn pump off.
If your system is leak free then the pump will only run after you use the brakes each time. Few seconds only.
The electrical drain is minimal.

#44 Gunmetal LH

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Posted 17 April 2019 - 12:02 AM

Cheers.  Will have to look at doing this one day...



#45 Bigfella237

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Posted 17 April 2019 - 09:05 AM

You could also add a vacuum tank? There's a few brands to choose from starting around seventy bucks...

 

http://www.vpw.com.a...ry/Index/604056

 

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