Posted 15 September 2015 - 11:22 AM
I had an L34 stolen some years ago and have just been to Vicroads about the car.
It is hard to believe but there is every chance that my car has been reregistered in either Victoria or any other state as they have no record of the VIN.
That means that if the car is presented for registration and the vin number for the vehicle is written on the application it will not be flagged as a stolen vehicle anywhere!
Obviously that is a fault in the system
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Posted 15 September 2015 - 11:28 AM
That is correct, the VIN will never be recorded anywhere except within GMH's IBM mainframe and on the Owner's VID certificate inside the warranty book. Even today the VIN is not used for registration purposes.
It is the chassis number (ALH0xxxxxM) that will be on Police records.
Posted 15 September 2015 - 11:46 AM
thanks for that bit of info. Yet the registration application asks for the vin #.
So at Torana Fest I would be looking for my Chassis number, supposing of course that the car is there!
Not my Vin Number.
Fulcrum Fixture
Posted 15 September 2015 - 12:03 PM
On that note, does the HVTC keep a register of such details for reference to cast a light on any shady pasts?
If not, it might be a good time and place to start this year.
Surly the info is already freely given on the application?
Has been Torana owner
Posted 15 September 2015 - 12:03 PM
So have VIC Roads checked the Chassis and engine numbers to see if a vehicle comes up as being registered?
( . Y . )
Posted 15 September 2015 - 01:52 PM
On that note, does the HVTC keep a register of such details for reference to cast a light on any shady pasts?
If not, it might be a good time and place to start this year.
Surly the info is already freely given on the application?
Assuming the entry form is filled out properly, the hvtc gets rego number and some car details-model, colour, engine capacity etc.
We don't ask for any identification numbers.
Fulcrum Fixture
Posted 15 September 2015 - 02:06 PM
Assuming the entry form is filled out properly, the hvtc gets rego number and some car details-model, colour, engine capacity etc.
We don't ask for any identification numbers.
No problem,
On a side note, that would mean if a car won, say, best LX, or best A9X etc, there are no real checks to prove authenticity also? (aside from 300plus Toranaexperts overlooking the whole thing hahaha).
Oh My, Don't you post alot
Posted 15 September 2015 - 02:14 PM
thanks for that bit of info. Yet the registration application asks for the vin #.
So at Torana Fest I would be looking for my Chassis number, supposing of course that the car is there!
Not my Vin Number.
They will be asking for the ISOVIN, which was used on GMH-Holden vehicles after VL Commodore. Prior to then All GMH product had a chassis number for registration purposes and a VIN number a portion of which (the PSN) GMH (later Holden) used for their own identification purposes. If your VIN was say 8D69ZDJ424501H (not a real VIN I just made it up for the timeframe) then the PSN would be J424501.
If you tried to register a pre VN Holden, Torana, Statesman etc with its VIN the registering Dept would not accept it. They want an ISOVIN or a Chassis number. Some GMH vehicles use the PSN plus an ADR revision suffix as the chassis number, eg Chevy trucks and Bedfords. A Chassis number on one of these can look like AJ453789 or BJ608827, but it is not a VIN just a chassis number made up using the PSN.
Do I feel lucky? Well, do ya, punk?
Posted 15 September 2015 - 08:21 PM
And if the car is tagless and has a police issued chassis/body number ?
"Have you still got that Torana!"
Posted 15 September 2015 - 08:49 PM
Oh My, Don't you post alot
Posted 15 September 2015 - 09:12 PM
And if the car is tagless and has a police issued chassis/body number ?
Police won't issue a body number, but any chassis number issued by Police would come with accompanying paperwork which you'd present when you went to register it. You'd probably also need that paperwork (in NSW) for the blue slip issuer to be able to stamp the chassis number.
Posted 16 September 2015 - 09:56 AM
So could I ask if there is a list anywher that aligns Chassis/Body number to the PSN Number?
I know that there is/was a listing for the LC/LJ as I was able to verify my XU1 as being a genuine car
Oh My, Don't you post alot
Posted 16 September 2015 - 10:31 AM
Yes and no. You cannot align the chassis number with the PSN for an LC/LJ using the LC/LJ Service/Warranty report that has been around for a while now (as a PDF with photos off a microfiche viewer). You can do it for LH-LX though, but only if you know what you are doing and also have access to the original microfiche reports. It is only able to be done with LH-LX due to a few quicks and planets aligning - they are the only GMH vehicle that you can do it for, although the odd spanner gets in the works with replacement bodies or GMP&A race shells as they have a chassis number but no PSN assigned.
As for the body number, that is easy with LH-LX as the body number is the numerical part of the PSN. It is also the body number for some LC/J but not many. Again if you know what you are doing with some of these (LC/LJ) you can also align the body number with the PSN but only if you have enough vehicles recorded, same with Holdens (HQ-HX) from the Elizabeth plant at the same time.
Edited by yel327, 16 September 2015 - 10:34 AM.
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View Garage
Posted 16 September 2015 - 06:19 PM
I find it hard to believe that it could be reregistered without one of the numbers coming up dodgy. A mate here in WA bought a 351 through Gumtree and two years later, after spending 15 grand rebuilding it, fitted it to his XD and went to put it over the pits for licencing. Low and behold the engine number came up on the system as from a stolen car. The original owner was notified by the police and he came down and took the motor. Mate was not happy, but a lesson learned.
Posted 16 September 2015 - 06:35 PM
I'm hoping that that is likely to happen one day with my L34.
Although it has been gone for a while.
I had a friend that had a similar thing happen with an XU1, it was gone for almost 15 years and had been through a couple of owners before it was discovered as being a stolen vehicle. The last owner was ordered to return the vehicle, he refused and the matter ended in court. The last owner lost the car and also a lot of lawyers fees.
Essentially he was told to chase the person that he had bought the car from and go from there.
Lesson learned again the really hard way, You can't fight City Hall
Forum Member
Posted 16 September 2015 - 10:15 PM
After having a few l34's the first place I always looked was the centre ID tag, like my first L34 8D69(4 door Torana)Z( engine prefix Z for L34, engine number would be HZ for Torana L34, D (1974) J4 (assembly plant code ) 34459 (this number matched the body tag that had all the details, moto, box, diff, colour , trim etc, also identified where it was made that tied it to the ADR plate chassis number and year code.H (LH series)This is the way I recall it, many wiser people can comment on the last part.
The stolen engine dilemma will always be around while the police play secret fn squirrell, it used to be easy when you knew any officer who could check for you when you were buying an engine, they were wanting to clear up the grubs and not ping the innocent buyers as I have heard of a few cases like above where someone buys an engine privately, then looses it when registering.
Good luck finding it, but I would guess it is long gone, but some of this stuff goes into sheds and it is only found when the grubs die, then it comes to light or pub talk gets out to those in the know
Oh My, Don't you post alot
Posted 17 September 2015 - 11:09 AM
I know there's stupid criminals out there but do you really think they'd register the car with same numbers?
There's a reason why they're known in the underworld as 'number jobs', they may leave everything else exactly as is but the whole idea is to change the numbers.
I suspect more than likely it would've been parted out, used to rebuild a damaged L34, used to create a mock up L34 or is now wearing the numbers of a written off L34
s
Forum Member
Posted 18 September 2015 - 06:33 PM
I have seen an LX in the early 90's wearing all the correct id for a 4.2 SLR, being sold as an A9X replica, but closer inspection showed it was too factory finished to be a fake, every part was A9X original, red with silver tail stencil, cream interior, so that can happen I guess, someone has and original A9X or L34, retagged from a damaged or rusty lesser model, sold as a replica
The original cars are too well known, with a bit of rverse numbers game, I am sure many people can work out what is what, short of rebodies, I have the exact deatils of at least 2 L34's and I know the history from new, so others out there would be the same.
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Posted 18 September 2015 - 07:06 PM
every part was A9X original, red with silver tail stencil, cream interior, so that can happen I guess
Not as uncommon as you think; many SL/R's & 5000's were stolen; these along with GTS's were in the top 3 on NRMA's most stolen cars in the 80's. They'd end up stripped with parts sold to wreckers and such. Dashes, gauges, interiors, ashtrays, etc. were all quick and easy money for car thieves. Chances are if you see those items in a non SL/R or GTS they could've been stolen at some time in the past.
Without doubt there were cars that were 'number jobbed' or had all the components stripped from one body and replaced onto another.
s
Edited by StephenSLR, 18 September 2015 - 07:07 PM.
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