124 replies to this topic

[8BALL]

Lol thanks.
Yeah i want to make my mezzanine area bigger.
Atm its just above the old air cond office and workshop. The rest of shed is open.
Good for the hoists tho.
Maybe when i re do my workshop area and incŕease mezzanine ill do it then may be easier.
Thanks for the input guys

[Bernie]

Do your sides as well and the end result will surprise you.Only real heat into my shed is at the roller doors .Flat style roof venting is the best .No squeaky noises in your shed after a couple of years .Looks better too

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[hanra]

Got a hold of two 30sqm rolls of Kingspan Aircell Glareshiled XL. Should do the trick.

Edited by hanra, 12 March 2016 - 11:15 PM.

[yel327]

Mine is 4.2m to eaves. Mezzanine doubles your space.

[hanra]

Thanks Grant, I wasnt planning on using chicken wire and the actual install instructions from Kingspan suggest having a 40mm air gap between the insulation and the sheet. They expect it to sag 40mm between the battens...

 

What I was going to do, was remove 2 sheets off either side of the shed, then tek screw one end of the insulation to the frame at the gutter. Roll the insulation over the battens to the other side. Pull tightish and then tek screw that end down. Puncture the insulation with a sharp rod at every screw hole.... (time consuming.. but may assist with re-lining up roof screws after wards????)

[Ice]

Thats the way to go Brad

[hanra]

Half way there today. Pretty time consuming. bit knackered after being in the sun all day coping it from top and bottom.

[dattoman]

So your lifting sheets... putting it down... then putting the sheets back ?

 

I really don't want to do it that way so keen to hear if theres another

[Ice]

So your lifting sheets... putting it down... then putting the sheets back ?
 
I really don't want to do it that way so keen to hear if theres another

Start lifting bud

[S pack]

So your lifting sheets... putting it down... then putting the sheets back ?

 

I really don't want to do it that way so keen to hear if theres another

Luckily for you there is another way Neil. Pay my travel and accommodation expenses and I'll come and lift the sheets up and install the insulation for you.

[hanra]

So your lifting sheets... putting it down... then putting the sheets back ?
 
I really don't want to do it that way so keen to hear if theres another

Yes. Lifting sheets. Binning old screws/washers and fitting new ones and using the original holes which is time consuming to line up etc. I could have screwed it up from underneath to the battens but didn't feel it would look that neat, plus would of been a bit of a dick around getting it around various obstacles.

[hanra]

All done. Just waiting on the roof vent to be made. Noticeable temp difference in there already. Sure to improve with the roof vent. Next job, wiring lights/power points.

Edited by hanra, 03 April 2016 - 10:14 PM.

[Bernie]

Hanra ,If you have a side facing the sun it will be a good idea to insulate that .Do the back of your door as well if it is facing the sun .The difference in temp is considerable .Have done my whole shed and the heat that comes through the roller door is significant .Considering a sliding door to eliminate the heat the roller creates .

 

Bernie

[hanra]

The left side wall in the above pic gets the sun in the mornings through lunchtime. I agree that would be a wise move, but at this stage, not on the radar. But wont rule it out. I dont have roller doors. I have 2 big double barn doors.

Edited by hanra, 04 April 2016 - 08:00 AM.

[Bernie]

Looking good either way .

[Ice]

Top job Brad

[yel327]

All done. Just waiting on the roof vent to be made. Noticeable temp difference in there already. Sure to improve with the roof vent. Next job, wiring lights/power points.

 

Don't scrimp on cable either. Get the eleco to run bigger cable to the shed than normal - if he whinges remember that Electrician's rarely understand voltage drop etc very well (only the good ones do). Depending upon the run I'd run at least 10sqmm 4C+E for 3phase and 16sqmm 2C+E for single phase - may need bigger if it's a longer run.

 

For the GPO circuits 2.5sqmm is fine for normal stuff, but if you are installing any 15A outlets for arc welding or for a larger compressor or similar bigger 1phase motor use 4 or 6sqmm. As an example, I did my house in 35sqmm 3phase to the meter board, 10sqmm 3ph to the shed and 6sqmm to the 15A outlets. My next door neighbour (same street pillar and sheds side by side about 3m apart) has 16sqmm 3phase to the house, 6sqmm  3ph to the shed and 4sqmm to the 15A outlets. When arc welding his shed voltage (at the GPO) drops from 242-ish V to about 210V. If I throw him a 10m 15A lead over the fence from my outlets, when welding the GPO voltage drops from 246-ish V (4-5V better off before we even start) to about 237V. Massive difference and the weld quality is better too. And compressor starts at my place see vary little light flicker in the house, but next door the lights flicker slightly with a compressor start - again voltage drop related.
 

[Ice]

And put double power points on each wall trust me you will use them

[yel327]

^^That isn't quite right. If the incoming to the house is small, you REALLY want to run extra big to the shed to avoid any further voltage drop issues.

 

I agree that the minimal is often run to the house in modern times. Energy Australia/Ausgrid reckon 16sqmm 4C+E PVC/PVC is good for 100A 3ph in underground conduit! I installed the smallest possible size by Australian Standards (AS3008.1.1) and it is 25sqmm 4 x 1C PVC or 25sqmm 4C+E XLPE, but I used 35sqmm 4 x 1C XLPE as it was cheaper at the time. The 25sqmm sizes may not be any good either if you put sand around the conduit.

[hanra]

Yeah Ill be wiring it up myself. Bit of a concern as firstly, the main meter box is 150m away out on the road. We are actually on 2 phase out here in the sticks, so I have two Tariff 11 meters and one Tariff 31 meter for the HWS.  I dont know what size has been used up to the house. The shed is then 50m away from the main board at the house. The wiring has already been trenched and run from the house to the shed by the previous owner, just never hooked up. Personally I would have used thicker cabling. But Ill be stuffed if Im going to try and pull through another run of thicker cable. Could end in disaster...... Double GPO's and fluros will be in abundance.

Edited by hanra, 04 April 2016 - 10:27 AM.

[yel327]

Don't do it yourself, you'll stuff it up for sure! And it is illegal, will void insurance etc. ALL electrical work has to have a CCEW provided that shows it was installed to AS/NZS3000 and tested. If you have a fire or someone gets an electric shock and there is no CCEW the Coroner and/or Insurance company will track back to who did the work. Even a changed GPO has to have a CCEW.

 

To make matters worse, with long cable runs like that, the earth fault loop impedance becomes an issue. Essentially if you get a short circuit (as in A-N) or a fault to earth there isn't enough voltage present to drive the fault current, so the protective device is way slower to operate and doesn't clear the fault inside the required time. This is important for two reasons - firstly the arc blast energy is i²t, reducing the time on an exponential curve is very significant. Secondly the touch voltage present on the earthed device where the fault has occurred has to fall under a certain time-current curve or the risks to persons are magnified hugely. Fitting an RCD with a higher earth fault current (like 100mA or 300mA rather than 30mA) at the supply end of the cable (at your house) is the way to overcome this.

 

If you want to know what you have get the cable sizes for me, and the lengths. I'll do the calcs for you. Photos of the ends of the cables (the shed one anyway) will help identify its size. Measure the outside diameter of the one at the meter box that feeds the house and we might be able to figure it out too. Get me the C/B size and type (photo) or fuse size at the meter box. Also have a look at how the meter box is fed - how far up the street is the transformer?

 

Note that in real terms you don't have 2-phase, you have 415V single phase (between the two phases) and 240V single phase (either phase to neutral). There is only 3-phase or single phase. The 415V single phase was probably used by the original cooktop.

 

If you are having lots of fluoros don't put them all on a standard switch - you'll end up with a boot off the switch. Best bet is to use a heavy duty rotary switch (like a Clipsal 56 series). Shocks from light switches feeding multiple fluoros and shocks from arc welders are probably the most reported shocks we see today, probably combined over 50% of the total.