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LH Bent K frame


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#1 boblhslr

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Posted 19 June 2016 - 08:37 PM

Hi guys, Just a quick question about K frames and how to measure to see if it is bent. Had a wheel alignment done and when I got it back it had no shims on the drivers side and had 2 shims on each bolt on the passenger side. The guy said drivers side was just in spec and the passenger side was ok. When driving the car it felt like it was darting over the road and didn't feel right. I now have the engine out for an overhaul and just want to make sure it is not bent before the engine goes back in.

Thanks in advance Mitch.



#2 ozyozyozy

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Posted 19 June 2016 - 10:01 PM

Alot of w/align machines are not in spec.
And doing them is relies heavily on the operator as to how well they turn out.
Not uncommon to have different size shim stacks.
Can check the subframe using plumb bobs and tape measures, measuring diagonals, lengths.

#3 EunUCh

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Posted 20 June 2016 - 06:34 PM

Sounds like the machine fukt up ? , truth be known that the k frame was bent from factory after being welded and walked around 

to some point hence the usual "odd" shim packs from car to car ?

Even though it needed a wheel alignment , how did it steer on way to alignment place? , and now it ducks and dives after the  shims

have been completely removed from one side ? , i am no expert but i would suspect that if the frame was bent somewhere around where 

it bends up to the spring tower that it would need more shims not none ?

Too much negy on one side?

 



#4 boblhslr

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Posted 20 June 2016 - 10:03 PM

Thanks guys for the replies. Yeah before wheel alignment it was ok but still had no shims on drivers side. But was definitely worse after. When we bought the car the previous owner told us it had been through a drain and a couple of barb wire fences. lol. 

Could it be possible that the stub axles could be a little bent or is this not likely.



#5 EunUCh

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Posted 21 June 2016 - 08:19 AM

I correct myself , think I got all that backwards ,the shim pack is on the inside , what the hell was I thinking , sorry if was bum steer but

if steered half ok before and is worse now then something went wrong, like said , can take a few measurements with engine out , the hard

part might be finding some datum point and numbers off a known pretty good frame to work from.



#6 S pack

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Posted 21 June 2016 - 01:57 PM

If you're not happy with the wheel alignment then get it checked elsewhere. The twitchy steering sounds to me like excessive toe in or toe out not camber adjustment. Check the condition of your tyres and they are at equal pressures.

 

Just a thought.


Edited by S pack, 21 June 2016 - 01:57 PM.


#7 boblhslr

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Posted 21 June 2016 - 06:03 PM

Thanks guys will have to get the engine built and back in before the wheel alignment. Just wanted to check the K frame while the engine was out. Does any one have any measurements between the uca mounts.



#8 Statler

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Posted 21 June 2016 - 07:38 PM

If the engine is out, & the K-frame is out, now would be a good time to check the body for alignment. 

 

What condition were the K-frame bushes in? Were the top mount bushes still centralised in the hole? Is there any uneven wear in the outrigger mount holes? 

 

it had been through a drain and a couple of barb wire fences. lol. 



#9 mick_in_oz

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Posted 21 June 2016 - 08:49 PM

Another thought, some models of Torana have the spec as negative caster, and this makes them awful to drive and they wander all about the place, especially at speed, you nearly always want as much positive caster as the vehicle will allow.

 

Mine had thick spacers on the upper control arm bolts from original, they look like hollow bar, and were maybe 3/8" and 1/2", these can be removed to allow you to add more shim. Mines a very late LX, so maybe only some cars got these?



#10 neglectedtorana

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Posted 21 June 2016 - 09:13 PM

Some measurements in the thread below, sorry I can't highlight the exAct spot

http://www.gmh-toran...member-rebuild/

#11 boblhslr

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Posted 25 June 2016 - 06:04 PM

Thanks guys for the replies. I will check to see if those spacers. How do you check the caster on the car. Strange they would make them with negative caster tho.

Thanks neglectedtorana found those measurements for the K frame. They are 794mm font bolts and 792 rear. Will check mine tomorrow. 

Thanks Mitch



#12 boblhslr

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Posted 27 June 2016 - 05:42 PM

Hi guys just measured the distance between the bolts that come through the chassis in the holes in the engine bay, Between the front two it measured 772mm and the rear two were 774mm. The K frame is still mounted in the car. I also measured the center of the holes in the chassis engine bay. The centers were 780mm. Any thoughts.



#13 Heath

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Posted 28 June 2016 - 08:18 AM

Firstly... what the hell is 'spec' for a Torana? If you're getting a wheel alignment to the factory specs - I hope you're not planning on having any enjoyment driving your Torana.

 

If you can't get the castor, camber and toe where you want them (you want at LEAST 1 degree of positive castor or don't even bother getting a wheel alignment), then yeah I'd be checking the K-frame alignment but I reckon it'd have to be a way off.

 

All of the Toranas I've paid attention to have had asymmetrical shim stacks in the front end. I don't think that should worry you.



#14 boblhslr

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Posted 28 June 2016 - 05:53 PM

Hey guys will have to get the engine back in to check it all. 

Hey Heath how do you set the 1 degree of positive castor. Do they do this by putting different number of shims from front to back on the upper control arm bolts. The problem is it has no shims on the drivers side and the camber was just on the negative side of camber.

Thanks Mitch.



#15 S pack

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Posted 28 June 2016 - 06:40 PM

Hey guys will have to get the engine back in to check it all. 

Hey Heath how do you set the 1 degree of positive castor. Do they do this by putting different number of shims from front to back on the upper control arm bolts. The problem is it has no shims on the drivers side and the camber was just on the negative side of camber.

Thanks Mitch.

Starting at 0 deg (assuming an exisitng shim stack of 5mm for arguments sake), adding shims to the UCA rear mounting bolt only will move caster from 0 to +, removing shims will move caster from 0 to -.


Edited by S pack, 28 June 2016 - 06:40 PM.


#16 mick_in_oz

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Posted 28 June 2016 - 07:34 PM

A bit of additional negative camber will mean you have to add some shim in there. Are all the bushes sound?



#17 Heath

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Posted 28 June 2016 - 10:14 PM

Well if driving is something that you enjoy, you will want negative camber and positive castor. 

 

Mitch, it sounds like you're starting with a shim configuration/alignment which is typical for a Torana - assuming that wheel doesn't already have 2+ degrees of negative camber, it'll be totally workable.

 

More shims in the rear = more positive castor

More shims in front & rear = more negative camber

 

Both of the posts above are correct also, checking out bush condition would be worthwhile prior to alignment.



#18 boblhslr

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Posted 28 July 2016 - 09:13 PM

Hi guys was just wondering if I was to swap out the upper control arms from LH to UC ones will this give me more positive castor as the ball joints and situated further back on the uca of a UC.



#19 mick_in_oz

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Posted 28 July 2016 - 10:13 PM

Yes it will, but unless you are after quite a bit, which will make the steering heavy, there is not a lot of point, there is nothing wrong with the shim stack being thicker at the rear than the front, they came standard that way. I'm sure +2 deg caster or so is achievable with a sensible shim stack.



#20 76lxhatch

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Posted 29 July 2016 - 06:40 AM

^ It can be, but particularly when you have uneven shim stacks it can mean you end up with too much negative camber to achieve enough caster. How much is too much depends on your roads, how you drive it, and what profile/width tyres you have on the front. The UC upper arms are a good way to gain some caster and keep control over the camber adjustment.



#21 mick_in_oz

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Posted 29 July 2016 - 08:19 PM

Did the place that did the alignment give you a print out of what it ended up with?

 

Post it up here and we can all see whats wrong or going on, and steer you in the right direction.



#22 boblhslr

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Posted 11 August 2016 - 08:33 PM

Nope no print out. I rang them to see if they had it on file but they didn't.

#23 piquet

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Posted 11 August 2016 - 09:51 PM

If the engine is still out, may be go the whole Hogg and strip the cross member down and find a chassis engineer and get it checked and if necessary straightened.
Are you in Melbourne as I know an engineering mob that could do it for you.

#24 boblhslr

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Posted 15 August 2016 - 10:12 AM

Not in Melbourne. In Brisbane. Not sure how they would straighten it has I don't have any measurements as what it should be.




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