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Cvr heater pipes


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#1 _LX355SLR_

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Posted 13 July 2016 - 01:15 AM

Hi guys. Running a cvr electric water pump and want to hook up the heater pipes again too the heater core. Who has done this and what the best method. Tap into pump or take from elsewhere

#2 Bigfella237

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Posted 13 July 2016 - 09:57 AM

G'day Peter, would need to see your exact setup but basically the heater core is plumbed in parallel with the radiator.

 

An inlet hose from the top of the engine (preferably on the block-side of the thermostat) to the heater core.

 

Then a return hose from the heater core to the suction-side of the water pump or lower radiator hose.

 

Can't really be more specific without knowing your layout, depending on whether you already have a dedicated bypass hose (for when the thermostat is closed) and whether your heater core/box is the "always on" type, you may simply need a heater tap that shuts off the circuit, or one that bypasses the core and leaves the circuit open, or no heater tap at all?

 

Also important, not sure what engine combo you run but modern cooling systems operate at twice the pressure (or more) than they did back in 1976 so don't just hook up an old Torana core to an LS engine for example or you might get wet feet.


Edited by Bigfella237, 13 July 2016 - 10:00 AM.


#3 _LX355SLR_

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Posted 13 July 2016 - 02:52 PM

yeah i have vt 304 with no bypass in the thermastat, The car has never had heating since i owned it. I had replaced the core with a rarespares core when i rebuilt but never hooked the hoses up and now i want to sort it out. Would like it all hidden also(as best as possible) so would i be right in taking water from a jacket at the back of the block and then return to an inline fitting on the bottom radiation hose or adapting to the spare inlet on the cvr pump?

 

how is the heater tap turned on and off? are they electric?



#4 Bigfella237

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Posted 13 July 2016 - 04:28 PM

If it's a standard Torana heater box then they didn't have a heater tap, the heater core was always hot...

 

Attached File  Heater Hoses - non AC.JPG   118.68K   0 downloads

 

...except if the car had factory air conditioning, in which case it had a bypass-style heater tap...

 

Attached File  Heater Hoses - AC.JPG   226.31K   0 downloads

 

I suppose you could tap into the water jackets at the rear of the cylinder heads but I'd expect the water wouldn't be half as hot back there because it hasn't circulated through the cylinder heads yet (where most of the heat is generated)?

 

Also if you only tap into one side then I'd be worried about causing a temperature differential between the left and right banks.

 

Plus you really should have some kind of thermostat bypass otherwise the water can't circulate when the thermostat is closed, that could not only delay the thermostat opening but create steam pockets within the heads because the water isn't moving around?

 

With an LS engine it's a lot easier to hide the heater lines because both the inlet and outlet are down low near the A/C compressor, but on a Holden V8 you really need to connect to the manifold just before the thermostat. I reckon the neatest method I've seen is running hard lines, bit extra work but you can't deny the results...

 

Attached File  Yellow Torana Engine Bay.JPG   372.79K   13 downloads



#5 mick_in_oz

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Posted 13 July 2016 - 07:01 PM

I went with a hard line, was the only way I could think of to make it fit with all of the additional EFI fuel plumbing I've added and had to work around.Attached File  WP_000629-1.jpg   331.01K   12 downloadsAttached File  WP_000658-1.jpg   381.05K   5 downloads



#6 _LX355SLR_

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Posted 14 July 2016 - 10:17 PM

got any more photos of the front mick



#7 mick_in_oz

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Posted 15 July 2016 - 07:21 AM

Yup, couldn't find the ones I wanted, they must be on the old phone or on the camera, will get some better ones for you over the next few days. :-)



#8 yel327

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Posted 15 July 2016 - 08:43 AM

Why don't you just use the VN-VS heater hoses that run under the bananas? If you want to turn it on and off just fit a vacuum heater tap and operate it with a small vacuum switch in the cabin?



#9 mick_in_oz

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Posted 16 July 2016 - 02:45 PM

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#10 _LX355SLR_

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Posted 19 July 2016 - 09:25 PM

Mick in oz, have you any trouble without bypass? Anyone used a cvr pump with standard heater setup. Ok to tap or use spare fitting on the bottom. Or I'm guessing I ca get an inline fitting for the bottom hose which would have the same effwct

#11 Bigfella237

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Posted 19 July 2016 - 09:52 PM

Without a heater tap to close the circuit, Mick's heater core acts as a bypass. That's how a standard (non air cond) Torana was from the factory.

 

In the factory air cond diagram I attached to post #4 you can see that if you block off the heater core, you need to redirect the flow so there is still a bypass circuit around the closed thermostat.

 

As for the return line from the heater, you can tap into anywhere on the suction-side of the water pump, so if you have a second (blanked-off) inlet that should be okay, or a T-piece in the lower radiator hose, just be aware that there may be a spring inside the lower radiator hose to stop it getting sucked flat (actually I'd be surprised if it doesn't suck flat anyway with no thermostat bypass)?



#12 76lxhatch

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Posted 20 July 2016 - 06:48 AM

I put a cable operated tap on mine to get rid of the heat soak in summer - you can just see it between the fuel rail and rocker cover here. When I get around to it I plan to piggy back off the heat flap in the cabin which is almost directly behind it

20160320_182954.jpg

 

Added a smaller bypass that tees off the heater hose elbow and returns to the water pump, at far right here

20160524_120134.jpg



#13 mick_in_oz

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Posted 20 July 2016 - 07:36 AM

Nope, no trouble, as Andrew said, it works the same as the factory, but with the Heater Core as the bypass circuit.

 

No way I have room for more crap like heater taps under the bonnet, or should I say on top of the engine.

 

I'm trying to keep it as simple and as clean as you can while still having injection, all of it has to be easily serviceable, but neat and with no extra or unneeded stuff, or positioning things where they are a bit more out of sight, but still gotten to.

 

All of that attitude is why I hand made the fuel regulator come distribution block that's on top of the timing cover, and the custom posts to mount the fuel rails, the custom eyelets to hold the fuel hose beside the rails, the solid lines for the heater and why its all been anodised black so as to not have anything jump out at you, and that only those that stop and have a good look will notice all of the custom work that's there.



#14 koalasprint

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Posted 25 August 2016 - 09:06 AM

Without a heater tap to close the circuit, Mick's heater core acts as a bypass. That's how a standard (non air cond) Torana was from the factory.

 

In the factory air cond diagram I attached to post #4 you can see that if you block off the heater core, you need to redirect the flow so there is still a bypass circuit around the closed thermostat.

 

As for the return line from the heater, you can tap into anywhere on the suction-side of the water pump, so if you have a second (blanked-off) inlet that should be okay, or a T-piece in the lower radiator hose, just be aware that there may be a spring inside the lower radiator hose to stop it getting sucked flat (actually I'd be surprised if it doesn't suck flat anyway with no thermostat bypass)?

If he is running an electric water pump then surely no heater bypass is required as the pump won't be running until the engine is hot and thermostat, if fitted, is open. Do you need a thermostat if the water pump is electric?

But for a mechanical pump either plumb it as per the air cond model above. Some people prefer to make a small hole in the thermostat, but it's stainless and hard to drill through.



#15 Bigfella237

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Posted 25 August 2016 - 12:00 PM

It's not a heater bypass, it's a thermostat bypass.

 

The aim of the game is to NEVER have the coolant NOT circulating, even when everything else is cold you can still boil 'static' water which is sitting next to the exhaust ports in the head(s), which creates pockets of steam, which doesn't do much for carrying heat away from the hot spots in the engine.

 

To compound the problem, without any circulation at all it will take longer for heat to be conducted along the coolant and reach the thermostat, meaning that it will be delayed opening as well.

 

If he is running an electric water pump then surely no heater bypass is required as the pump won't be running until the engine is hot and thermostat, if fitted, is open. Do you need a thermostat if the water pump is electric?

 

Even having an electric water pump (EWP), it must be running as soon as the engine fires. You don't have to run a thermostat with an EWP, instead you can use a speed controller to slow it down (or speed it up) according to temperature, yes this means coolant will still circulate through the radiator so it may take a little longer to warm up but without airflow I expect the difference would be negligible.

 

Some people prefer to make a small hole in the thermostat, but it's stainless and hard to drill through.

 

Depending on the application, some thermostats come with a "bleed hole" already in them, but it's purpose is to allow air trapped under the thermostat to bleed through, it's not designed as a bypass circuit.

 

EDIT: I meant to add that one big advantage of using an EWP is that it can keep coolant circulating even after the engine has been shut down, this can help a lot with "heat soak".


Edited by Bigfella237, 25 August 2016 - 12:07 PM.





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