20 replies to this topic

[madtoranajzedded]

Hi guys.Gee there is alot of companies able
to provide me with the service i need but
can you guys reccommend one that would b
best to go through.
i want to help out the motor as much as i
can heat and friction wise to last longer.
The motor is going to b a moderate 200-220max
I want to get skirts pistons tops and valve
face done .

Has anyone done there inlet tract in head .

I gather this would help somewhat??

Any feedback will b greatly appreciated
Cheers maz

Oh.. another thing how thick does it go on
does the bore,crown,or say inlet ports have
tob made bigger to compensate for the
thickness of the coatings??..

Edited by madtoranajzedded, 16 September 2016 - 01:13 PM.

[grumpy xu1]

Hi Maz, let me claify i am no expert in this, but all the pistons i have seen have only had the coating on the skirts vy ls1 omwards used this coating and the engines are a lot quieter. I have a ls1 with 200,000 klms, coating is still on pistons usually a black in colour, I'd be guessing possibly 2 thou for the coating, but they should know at the company, get them done & get the engine builder to bore & hone with the correct tolerance after the pistons are done. Im trying to think about why you want to do the inlet runner in the head though ? If any was getting coated i would have considered the exhaust to be the thought patern ? & as for valves id look into would a coating attract carbon build up ? I could be wrong, but that would be some of my thoughts, i look forward to reading reply's & learning something more possibly! Gary.

[grumpy xu1]

Hey Maz, i read some of the reports on the coatings wow ! & to answer your question they say that the coating is 1 thou & don't take it into consideration & set clearances as if it wasn't there valve "stems" are coated the skirts have a dry film of molybdenum disulfide added obviously the black colour, you can also use a different coating on the top of the piston & in the combustion chamber & exhaust runner & headers to prevent detonation "self explanatory" & you can imagine how this could work, the intake runner uses the moly to i think, you can use the moly to attract oil & teflon to repell the oil. I ported a mellings ls1 oil pump not long ago & they use the moly in them. It all seems like a great idea, but id really like to see the costings involved, but theoretically you could do the valves,pistons, oil pump, cylinder head, they're doing crankshaft's as well in the states, valve train inside the block under the rocker cover inside the sump intake & exhaust manifold's inside. You could probably do inside the gearbox & the diff & get improvements. But for how much $$$$$$$$$$$$ ? A good read is engine parts coatings - engine builder 2005/08 Gary.

[grumpy xu1]

Maz, from what ive read you would be up for around $1000 to do the whole engine parts assembly, & make a 6hp @ the crank gain mate. That's doing all the parts, & good fuel ect. Supposedly you can buy dyi kits to do it yourself which would be good apart from reciprocating parts as in affecting balance, keep us informed if you go dyi path. Gary.

[madtoranajzedded]

It seems beneficial in alot of aspects hey
I only looked in a few places one was on
Ceramic coatings..zircotech heat management frequently asked questions
There method is that they melt the material
to 10.000c 18000f and is directly hot sprayed
onto the part .it hits the cold surface and
imediately solidfies and welds itself on.
there thickness is .3mm (.012)
theres alot of good reads on this .

Im interested who has used it and best place
to get it done.im not really interested in
the cost...well i am id be prepared to fork
a g or so on getting head valves,springs
piston topand skirts done.i will do anything
to prolong the longitivity of the motor.
Well..Just about 😉

[grumpy xu1]

Maz, mate i don't know how handy you are, but have a read on techlinecoatings.com df-1 dry lube & cbc-1 thermal barrier coating. Preparation is the key with this stuff, but with some skill & patience it doesn't look all that difficult. Oh & i had a look at some ls heads i have of an engine & I'd never studied the valves, both have the moly coating on them! So i did learn something more sweet, Gary.

[madtoranajzedded]

Lol.they will probably nab me for the 138 mold
on the 2.8 block and the 2250h restamp also 😆

[grumpy xu1]

Maybe they'll carry fume detectors, That might pick up on fumes smoked in the replies to this topic ? I simply gave Maz some answers to a question, that not 1 other person bothered to f@cking answer. & for anyone else who may want to try to do these things for themselves. I only try to help, not be a smart arse !!!!!!!!

[rexy]

Personally I wouldn't bother. Lots of money for no significant benefit on a low powered streeter.

[ozyozyozy]

I have my pistons coated was cheaper than replacing them at the time, had some real minor marks on them.
Skirts and crowns wer done, the theory on the crown, it contains the heat more in the combustion area, does not transfer through.
Cranks are usually iso tropic treated not ceramic coated, put in a tub with ceramic pellets and vibrated for hours, helps to give a harden/polished finish.
Put it simply, nascar do it, v8's do it, just about every form of motorsport do it to some degree so it must help.

Bigger gains to be made from a mild motor for $1000.

[ozyozyozy]

Oh and yes clearances require rechecking, eg. Cylinder bore may require a slight hone, to bring it back to specs.

[grumpy xu1]

Oz, the link i posted list all the different types of coatings available to the home builder, "if" he has the skills, patience & cleanliness. All are important, coating the crank & rods with there products is repelling the oil so it doesn't build up on it. Which is the same principle in theory as to why you would vibratory polish them. You could do all of your own stuff in a streetable engine for half the price. They state that the coating on the pistons is only 1 thou thick & does "not" require taking into account! Have a read of it & see what you think, anyway i was trying to help you guys at home with a money saving idea. Which is fairly easy to apply, bake ect, water based, non toxic & environmentally friendly. Yet still works. Seems to be the only product of it's kind, that seems to actually work. Including in boosted engines, up to 28 psi of boost. Up to you guys. Hope it helps someone anyway. Gary

[madtoranajzedded]

All good Gaz.thanks for trying to help bud.
I did read a little bit on the techline
coatings..i dont think i would b able to
spray it evenly im afraid.id most likey get
a company to do it.ive never blasted parts
before so best left to the experts.
When reading on hot rod on thermal barriers
say the tb are used to reduce heat migration
Reflecting heat rather than absorbing it.
when applied to piston tops it reflects heat
back into the combustion chamber.the
additional heat translate into more enery to
push the pistons down.it goes on to say it
may decrease detonation potential,but then
it says it MAY increase the potential
for detonation as the heat is no disipiated
down through the pistons and rings and
through the cylinder walls and into the water
jackets.
Setting up a thermal barrier in the
combustion chamber helps the chamber retain
heat for more power potential,again
assuming that detonation does not become a
problem...

Thanks for the reply ozy.how much did it cost
To coat pistons and who did you go through

Cheers maz

[ozyozyozy]

Sorry i cant remember how much i paid now, would be about 6-8 years ago i did it.
I have had about 3 engine refreshes since then, has held up well (targa race engine)
We have a company in perth that does all that stuff,
Competition Industrial Coatings (CIC) is the name.

[madtoranajzedded]

Brilliant thanks Ozy.i'll check them out


Cheers maz

[madtoranajzedded]

Gave them an email last nite and have got
back to me with pricing.there costings are
generally 55 bills ea piston+GST for ceramic
top and dry filmed sides.i did mention i
wanted undersides done aswell i guess thats
in the figure.
I havnt got the pistons balanced yet so i
gather ill balance them after coating.
I did mention i wanted underside done aswell
So this will bugger coating underside once
they start drilling holes to balance it.
I mighten get the underside done because of
that......hmmmmm

Edited by madtoranajzedded, 19 September 2016 - 02:04 PM.

[madtoranajzedded]

Hey ozy.did you get the ringland area done
like skirts right to the top or left an area
free as in pic

Cheers maz
 download (3).jpg   3.73K   1 downloads

[ozyozyozy]

Pretty sure mine are coated as per your pic.
Top coating and skirts.

[madtoranajzedded]

Beaudy..Thanks for that Ozy

[ozyozyozy]

No prob👍🏽