116 replies to this topic

[warrenm]

I'de use 5/16".

How tight was the balancer when you fitted it? light tap on or a bit firmer? Should be firm.

[Rockoz]

If you find a good inboard ski boat mob they may just loan you ar sell you the drilling boss to make the job possibly easier.

I remember doing the job for a mates dog clutch years ago.

Only drawback is the hole for lining it up may be different.

Need to bolt onto the balancer through the puller holes which may be different to the dog clutch bolt holes.

But the holes for drilling into the crank will be spot on.

You could easily make a plate up I guess.

Just nned the diameter of the crank and the diameter of the bolt holes from crank centre

[Brent J]

Hi everyone,

 

Long time since I have updated this thread. The sets screw is a great idea. I had already purchased the Locktite products for a second crack at the job. Essentially I had decided that Id give it one more shot at a quick fix. If this didn't work then Id just bite the bullet and pull the engine.

 

To answer a question above - the new balancer is quite firm onto the crank. Probably not as firm as it would be new, but not completely flogged out. You can just see some of the wear on the crank in the third picture below.

 

I pulled off the balancer again (after the first fix) and the key was still glued solid into the crank (first picture below). Id expected the epoxy to have shattered hence the movement, but no. it wasn't going anywhere. So I left it in there. I cleaned up all the surfaces with some emery paper and solvent to get the old Loctite 680 off. I actually had to chip it off like weld slag as it was very hard!

 

I sprayed on the Loctite primer onto the crank and the balancer. (note I unbolted the engine mounts so I could jack the front of the engine up and get a nice direct shot at the front of the balancer and the Valence panel was fouling the timber block I was using and I couldn't get a nice square hit at the centre of the balancer).

 

I applied a liberal amount of Loctite 660 to both parts and proceeded to whack the balancer on. That's were it ended! I got it on about half way, then the bugger wouldn't move no matter how hard I hit it... crap! So, out with the puller and I can tell you I almost couldn't get it off. Turns out, it had galled up. So, I cleaned it all up, re-applied the Loctite products (2nd picture below), made sure I squared up the balancer to the shaft, gave it a few light taps to make sure it was square and then a few heavy whacks and it drove home no problem. Almost too easy.

 

I'm not sure if it has worked as I have not put the front end back together yet (bumper, filler panel and grille), but hoping it will be a fair interim fix until the engine re-build of 2018....again !

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Edited by Brent J, 25 June 2017 - 05:25 PM.

[grumpy xu1]

Fingers are crossed for you mate, i would baby it for a fair while though till your confident. Hopefully you have got it done & dusted, Gary.

[Brent J]

I baby it anyway! My wife says that I drive it like a nana except the rare occasions when I give it some grief in a straight line. Love the sound of a Holden 6!

 

That said, its been curing for about 10 days so the products have well and truly gone off. If the fix doesn't work, then ill recondition the engine.

[Brent J]

7 months since I last posted in this thread - how time flies!

 

The last time I posed here I had done a short cut Loctite repair on the harmonic balance. Those that have read this thread from the start will be aware that I am chasing a nasty vibration issue.

 

Firstly, the Loctite fix seems to be holding up. I took the car for a very short run and everything appears to be nice and firm for now. The fix also seems to have gotten rid of a knocking sound I could hear toward the front of the engine. Evidently the balancer was rocking on the snout of the crank due to excessive play.

 

Unfortunately it did not solve the vibration I get in each gear from about 3500 RPM and up. Sad Face!!

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[Brent J]

So, process of elimination. I decided to tackle some of the rotating components even though I am sure it is related to engine speed, not road speed. I tackled a few jobs:

 

1. Tail shaft uni's and balance
2. LSD rebuilt
3. Axle bearings
4. Brake shoes, pads & lines
5. Muffler & hardware (the old was incorrect for the car)
6. Repro fuel tank (the original was banged up and had holes in holes)

 

Admittedly a few of the bits I replaced don't have anything to do with drive train but they were pretty sad so I figured Id replace them while I was there..I took it for another short drive and again it still had the nasty vibration. So, now that leaves the gearbox, clutch assembly and engine.

 

A local who has been helping me out with info sold me a correctly dated gearbox casing and I found a correct cluster so had fresh gearbox built. I also purchased a new clutch kit and spigot. Ill get the rotating parts balanced, swap them out and put the new box in and see how it goes...

 

It has been fun working though the parts, cleaning, re-building and getting the car back to factory (within reason) but hoping I find this issue soon! I'm hoping I find the issue in the flywheel and clutch assembly!

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Edited by Brent J, 18 February 2018 - 07:08 PM.

[Brent J]

Hi again,

So a little bit more work this weekend and I have been able to get the gearbox out as well as pull the clutch and flywheel off the car.

 

Disappointingly, everything appeared to be nice and tight and in order. Clutch bolts were not overly tight but they were still firm. The flywheel was tight and needed a rattle gun to get the bolts out.

 

One observation was that the surface of the flywheel has a lot of fine cracks propagating away from the centre of the flywheel (see picture below).

 

I decided to weigh the flywheel and it came in at 10.7kg (about 23lb) so definitely not the lighter XU1 item.

 

The clutch itself looked OK. A bit worn (PBR item).

 

I purchased a dial indicator and magnetic base to see if I could check if the crank shaft flange was out of round. I tested the face that bolts to the flywheel and also the outer edge. I pulled the plugs and removed the fuel pump to make it a bit easier to turn it over..

 

It was a bit hard as I had to video the dial while I spun the engine fan but the dial moved from 0 to about 0.01 to 0.025mm maybe 0.3mm when measuring the deflection of the face that bolts to the flywheel

When I measured the outer edge the dial moved from 0 to 0.015.

 

The Max Ellery's Repair manual I have says that the out of round max limit for crankshaft and flywheel is 0.005mm for new and 0.025mm for used.

 

Have people had any experience here? My car does appear to have more movement than the manual but would this give me the massive vibration I am getting?

 

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[rexy]

Out of interest do you have the proper shanked clutch pressure plate bolts?

[Brent J]

The bolts I took out were had a short shank before the thread yes. They look like original Holden bolts.

[Rockoz]

Need to take end float into consideration when measuring like that.

Check your end float, then use that when considering whether the measurements fall within range.

[Brent J]

I checked the end float and there was about 0.04mm of movement on the dial gauge.

 

So I sent off the flywheel and old clutch assembly to a local shop for a check on balance. To my disappointment, the shop has informed me that they only found very minor out of balance, but still within what they considered acceptable limits for a street car.

 

So I am at a point now where there is not much else that it could be apart from an internal engine balance issue since I have already replaced or refurbished just about everything that moves on the car. The reality is that I pretty much have to remove the radiator and engine mount bolts and its ready to come out.

 

The only thing that I have not tried yet is my new gearbox or replaced ignition components. I am not overly motivated to put the new box in, only to have to pull everything out again if it is indeed the engine..

 

Decisions, Decisions!

[Toranamat69]

Was the flywheel and clutch balance done with them bolted together in the same orientation? My younger brother got a vh commo auto really cheap years ago cooz it has a pretty bad vibration. We stuffed around with it for a few days and I thought it was from the torque converter. I pulled the cover, undid the torque converter bolts,spun it 1 hole and bolted back up and it was perfect. I couldn't believe the difference it made.

[Rockoz]

May even be as simple as spark scatter.

checked that?

[Brent J]

Hi mat69 - Yes I made sure I marked the orientation of the clutch assembly to the flywheel and had the guys at the balance shop re-assemble and balance in the same orientation. Balance wasn't perfect but according to them, not enough to feel significant vibration.

 

Hi Rockoz - I have not checked spark scatter or ignition performance. I have changed out the plugs and points but that's it. Not sure how I test spark scatter? To be honest the vibration doesn't feel like an electrical misfire. It feels like mechanical imbalance.. That said i'm certainly no expert. Coil, leads etc. are on the list to check / replace. To date I have been trying to cross off all the Mechanical items.

 

 

I'm wondering if I bite the bullet and pull the engine anyway considering my quick fix on the balancer (earlier posts) and do a health check on the engine.

Edited by Brent J, 02 March 2018 - 11:35 AM.

[Rockoz]

Just for shits and giggles, change your dizzy cap, rotor and plug leads, and put a few drops of oil on the felt in the centre of the dizzy shaft.