27 replies to this topic

[Swarbs]

Have been doing a fair bit of research on this for the T10 and seems to be many conflicting stories as to what is best 

 

Widely accepted that 75W 90 oil is the std for this box 

 

There seems to be issues regarding the synthetics and mineral oils and which to use 

 

From what i have read

A full synthetic seems to have not enough friction and will not "grab" the synchro enough to slow it down for the change

Also seems to be a few probs with additives causing corrosion within the differing metals of the box 

There also seems to be leakage issues

 

Being a bit old school i am biased toward the mineral oils but oils not being oils am open to change

 

The mineral 75W 90 seems to be a hard one to find  - but if anyone knows of a brand available please put it up

 

I'll throw it out there to those who are running or have run T10s for some input

Box it will be going in is a "W" series that has just had a full overhaul - new 1st and cluster gear - new synchros - new bearings

 

Any input appreciated

[76lxhatch]

Yeah unfortunately it is getting harder to find proper mineral oils. If you do go synthetic I'm a fan of Redline gear oils, they make a GL-5 spec 75W90 "NS" oil which is specifically intended for boxes with yellow metal (brass synchros) and to address the "slipperiness" issue.

https://www.redlineo...x?product=58304

I used to run it in the Muncie and it was as good as anything, occasionally you would notice a bead on the bottom of the box but it never dropped anything and the gaskets weren't the greatest anyway.

[Rockoz]

I still find 90W oil around in mineral.

Back in the day it would have just been HD90 used in the boxes.

It was fairly universal for gearboxes and diffs.

There were few multigrade oils around except for engine oil.

20W50 was pretty much the universal engine oil.

HD90 for gearboxes and diffs.

ATF 210 or 220 for autos depending on whether it was Ford or not.

LS90 if you had a limited slip diff.

[Swarbs]

Thanks for the reply's 

Have been scanning the American sites and they have mentioned the Redline and a brand called Royal Purple - there is a fair bit of debate about it  

When you go there they are another synthetic and the circle goes around again 

 

Looking at the link it states that the oil addresses the problem of the synchro friction which is what concerned me in the first place 

The gaskets and seals are brand new and the box has had nothing in it since the rebuild hence i want to sort this

 

Am putting the car together "to be driven" so something like a gear not going in because the oil i chose was wrong would drive me nuts

 

Any brands spring to mind Rob? 

[grumpy xu1]

Dave, royal purple has been used in Australia for around 10 years now, including some v8 super cars & racing commodore's. You should be able to purchase it, red line & liquimoly from autobarn as a possible buy in, or Fuchs from burthsons all good quality oils, most will have an oil guide with a section to put in the details of the vehicle the box came from originally, liquimoly & others I've seen usually list best to least. & usually start with the synthetic option followed by a mineral if applicable. If you jump on their sites it's pretty easy to navigate. Gary.

[grumpy xu1]

You can get liquimoly also from, www.sparesbox.com.au or phone 1300117587, their prices aren't to bad & include delivery apparently. Gl5 might possibly be the oil of theirs your after, but please check that yourself. It's about $25 / litre for a full synthetic, that's pretty good i think for quality gear oil.

[WhiteA9XS]

 i,m getting good mileage and less rebuilds from redline lightweight shockproof oil , was rebuilding every 3 race meets , now every 6 meets with this stuff , have also found the iron case Super T10 are lasting longer between builds than the alloy cases .   

[ozyozyozy]

Do not use shock proof gear oils, the type that look like there is powder or solid matter in it, the oil good for the gears, struggle to get between the gear and the mainshafts causing damage, worse when cold, i popped a box and the mainshaft was dry in this area.

Used to use redline 75w gear oil.

Your average T10's also have a ceiling as to how much power they can actually handle, anything more than a mild 308, your starting to push the limits.

There are companies that make gearsets and rollerized mainshafts that can handle more power out of the US.
Nascar ised versions of these gearboxes for many years, so there are alot of options out there for them.

[Swarbs]

Yep this is what the sites i have been looking at in the states sound like 

It sounds like the good stuff is the mineral oil but they don't do it in the required viscosity

 

There was also people who used an 80W 90 because of the above reasons - although i cant recall weather they or used this in a synth or a mineral oil so will have to check 

 

Thanks again for the discussion and input 

 

Roger that is exactly my take on this problem - have spent the time and dollars and don't want to toast things or have it not work the way it should

 

The TCM boys use these boxes but a rebuild to them every few races is part of the job of running these cars and i want at least 10 years out of it

[ozyozyozy]

I was using a full synthetic redline too.

The TCM boys use the nascar version of the t10, thats were the similarities end.
Known as a t101a or gf4a.
They bt in place of a t10, look similar to a t10 but are a kick arse version of them, they also have internal oil pumps and spray bars to force fees oil to necessary areas.
Also straight cut gears with dog engagement.

If you hunt around have seen them for $3500us

[ozyozyozy]

I was using a syncro t10 years ago, then went to tremec TKO.
Using a holinger dog box now, was instructed to use 80/140 lsd oil in this.

[WhiteA9XS]

 rodgered , we race in group c and use syncro super t10 as they did in the day (not the modified versions), i switched to super lightweight some 5 years ago after a major box breakage where second gear welded itself to shaft and was getting wear in cluster on the front trust and inside cluster where layshaft rollers run  , i was then using castrol 75/90 . boxes where required to have a tear down and replace components bearings etc every 3 meets . i changed to the redline as other guys in the class where having good results , no noticable shifting problems and better wear on components , this is my view and i will continue to use it . however i do change box oil before every meet .      

[Swarbs]

Great input fella's and thanks for the interest 

 

Been having a bit more of a look and sort have come to a bit of a conclusion considering i want to put an oil in and use the car without not having to strip the box down

This will be for road use with a bit of abuse (but in a nice fun way) 

 

There seems to be a bit of conjecture over the whole GL-4 / GL-5 thing  - a lot of people are saying stay away from the GL-5 due to the additives and yellow metal issues

Not 1 bad thing i have read about GL-4 - in fact all have said this was the go prior to the synthetic era and also prior to the GL-5 coming into existence (which was developed for the "newer" style transmissions)   

Point of it is, all points to using a GL-4 which no-one has had an issue with 

 

Have read mixed stories re the synthetic use from difficult shifting to seized main shafts etc etc

Have not read 1 bad thing about using an mineral based oil - Have read where people have changed out the synth to a mineral and sorted the problems 

The point of this is the difficulty in finding a 75W-90 mineral based oil

 

The 75W-90 GL-4 Min based is bloody near unobtainable (i haven't found any) so have been looking at alternatives and as i said above something like an 80W-90 

The more i look all seems to be coming back to a brand called Brad Penn Lubricants who make a GL-4 80W-90 mineral based oil 

 

The company claims this oil replaces the hard to get 75W oil and has been developed for the "older" style transmissions

I have not read anything about this oil causing any shift issues but have read good things about it solving issues

 

http://www.amref.com...Gear_Oil_PB.pdf

 

http://www.mscn.com....urpose-gear-oil

 

It seems it is sold in Aust by the above mob 

Has anyone had any experience either good or bad with this product or the company that supplies it 

Am starting to think that it is the go

[Rockoz]

I used to talk to a Castrol rep a lot years ago.

He was a good friend of the guys that owned the garage I worked with.

 

Had someone ring about what oil to put in his exotic car one day.

I didnt have the knowledge so when I saw him next we discussed it.

 

Some of the oils recommended for exotics are due to the climate where the car was built.

He said that generally speaking if the recommended oil fell within the weight range of a particular oil it could be safely used.

Provided the oil was designed for that particular use. ie engine oil for engine oil.

 

The T10 would have used 90W oil as normal in the day.

80/90 would be a suitable substitute, even 70/90.

90 is the weight of the oil cold. The 70 or 80 would be the weight of the oil when at a predetermined temperature.

As the 90 oil didnt have a weight designated for warm then who knows what weight it would have attained?

[ozyozyozy]

Throw a spanner in the works, I have also used gl4 rated auto trans fluids with success in t10's, t56's and TKO's

I had more trouble finding oils that would work, that also had a good temp rating for racing.
Most are only rated for daily driving.

[Swarbs]

Sounds good to me 

As i said above the car will be used for driving when i can as most of our road car Torries are these days

 

Will not be racing so really the box will not be put under prolonged load / punishment situations so the temp side of things will or shouldn't be an issue as travelling from A to B at 120 will only get the box to a certain temp where it should stay

 

I have just about sold this stuff to myself so can anyone see any issues with it?

[ozyozyozy]

Some friends use the brad penn oil, seem to be happy with there products
Havent personnally used it.

[warrenm]

I have a Muncie 4 speed in my LJ which I was having trouble shifting at 7000rpm. After consultation with Auto Gear in the USA(which supplied the gear train in my trans) they gave me a list of suitable oils, with only 1 available in Australia, Royal Purple which was not available close to where I live. So after further research, I found that Fuchs TO4-10 is a mineral oil, GL-4, it's a machinery transmission oil, i've been using it for several years. It's also available as TO4-30 if the TO4-10 is to thin. 

I haven't used this, but it reads up ok.

http://www.hi-tecoil...oil-gl-4-75w90/

Edited by warrenm, 09 January 2017 - 07:49 AM.

[LS1LX]

We put one in a customers torana, 355 with only 400hp, it's been copying a flogging and gets driven 3-4 times a week minimum. Been in the car for over 12 months and shifts beautifully but it's only 400hp, I would look at a Richmond 5 speed or tko 5 speed for your level of hp

I know this is a little off the subject but has anyone have any knowledge in the limits of the Richmond gear Super T10 I'm contemplating purchase of the S code 2.43 1St and putting behind a 550 Hp Street car. It won't see strip work or have slicks. Richmond say 350ft torque rating. Seems a bit conservative
Any thoughts. Also Richmond have oils they developed and recommend but if suitable for the GM type transmission I can't be sure.

[Swarbs]

Found this an interesting read and clarifies a fair bit between the GL4 and GL5 oils

 

 

http://www.widman.bi...ansaxle_oil.pdf

[warrenm]

Good article. Not many oils in the list that are available here.