210 replies to this topic

[IMORAL]

Oh. I was hoping it is the missing car so too speak but I'm not 100% convinced

That said I hope he does get the info one day to prove it is cos that would be cool as frOck.

[S pack]

Starting again.

 

October ' 73 parts catalogue - 4.003

 

2813481 - NOT LISTED . Apologies, I recorded the part number incorrectly. Correct part number is 2813487 - HQ M21 Aussie 4 spd, incl XW7.

Edited by S pack, 14 January 2017 - 10:52 AM.

[Kockum]

No probs .

 

An important part of this site is to get the correct information out there .

[Ice]

Haha Glenno,s been banned lol

[IMORAL]

Haha Glenno,s been banned lol

He was getting too big for his boots

Mox is next

[lx308]

Haha Glenno,s been banned lol

WTF for? Something he said in this thread?

[Ice]

WTF for? Something he said in this thread?

Fun police doesnt matter

[lx308]

Fun police doesnt matter

That's a shame, he seemed like someone who wasn't afraid to tell it how he saw it, regardless of any political correctness bullshit.
Sort of reminded me of someone else, but I just can't remember who...

[kiwi-lilj]

Willow ?

[S pack]

So I now make that;

2807102 is a clutch pedal used for 829, 823 and 825 models without automatic.........as we expected.

2829791 is a clutch pedal NOT used in XW7.

 

So the question remains......where was 2829791 used....if ever?

 

It seems to me this paper must have been abandoned by whoever in engineering was writing on it for a newer paper revision that we don't have or he never came back from lunch to fully complete this paper revision shown by Friday 30th June.

It appears Clutch Pedal P/N 2829791 was most likely intended for a RHD export LJ Torana that the experimental engineering dept were working on in February 1972.

 

This 4cyl LJ was going to use the 823 & 825 model RHD 6cyl bodies fitted with production options L12 & L15 (OPEL CIH) engines coupled to an MC6 (Torquemaster) 4spd floor shift Transmission and 3.90:1 LSD Banjo Differential.

 

A new clutch pedal to suit the 6cyl pedal box would be required as a clutch cable would need to be used to operate the clutch fork on the left hand side of the transmission.

 

Hence the need to annotate 2829791 with exc XW7 when XW7 was added to the model range on the drawing sheet.

Which therefore tells us RPO XW7 uses pedal P/N 2807102.

 

I suspect that a fully revised drawing would have existed but the engineer who had Al's drawings didn't acquire an updated copy.

Edited by S pack, 14 January 2017 - 10:53 PM.

[xu2308]

Yes immoral.
By the numbers this car was most certainly in experimental engineering.
But it could have been there for many other reasons.
Confirming it once housed a V8 is the reason for this discussion.
As it stands, Al has a rat trap from a wrecker. A completely standard k frame. He also has what he believes is a complete set of drawings.
It's a laughable discussion to be frank.

XW7 Engineers have Confirmed the Car and HHS from there Records has confirmed it's one of the Three LJ GTR V8 Prototypes. GlensXU1 you never worked at GMH on the XW7 program or do you have the information that HHS has. I do have the XW7 Drawings and XW7 Parts List as it was given to me by a EX GMH XW7 Engineer.

Edited by xu2308, 15 January 2017 - 02:17 AM.

[xu2308]

Regardless of how you try to wriggle, twist, about face and wriggle your way through, at the end of the day the part number on the drawing has been annotated with 'exc XW7', meaning 'not with XW7'. Any Holden engineer, or any engineer for that fact would read that drawing and draw the conclusion that the XW7 does not use part number 2829791.
The only logical conclusion is the XW7 uses part number 2807102.
 

 

No matter how you try to Wriggle, twist as well S pack, the XW7 part number for a new clutch pedal is on that Engineering Instruction drawing, Part Number 2829791: As Neil the Ex GMH guy has told you that some Engineers PENCILLED in and due to been busy never filled in the Box, Neil says that happened. Neil says

[xu2308]

It appears Clutch Pedal P/N 2829791 was most likely intended for a RHD export LJ Torana that the experimental engineering dept were working on in February 1972.

This 4cyl LJ was going to use the 823 & 825 model RHD 6cyl bodies fitted with production options L12 & L15 (OPEL CIH) engines coupled to an MC6 (Torquemaster) 4spd floor shift Transmission and 3.90:1 LSD Banjo Differential.

A new clutch pedal to suit the 6cyl pedal box would be required as a clutch cable would need to be used to operate the clutch fork on the left hand side of the transmission.

Hence the need to annotate 2829791 with exc XW7 when XW7 was added to the model range on the drawing sheet.
Which therefore tells us RPO XW7 uses pedal P/N 2807102.

I suspect that a fully revised drawing would have existed but the engineer who had Al's drawings didn't acquire an updated copy.

There is no Fully updated Drawing, The XW7 Drawings that I have are it, Part number 2829791 is for XW7 and as Neil told you some Engineers Pencilled these in and due to been busy did not put it in the Box. You heard it from Neil the GMH guy. It appears you say that Clutch Pedal Part Number 2829791 was most likely intended for a RHD Export Car, lol where does this appears at ??? Show the Drawing for this appears. Where is the proof of your Appears ?? Speculating with update for Drawing and Appears are you not.

Edited by xu2308, 15 January 2017 - 02:55 AM.

[xu2308]

So before I grow old and die, is there anyway I can obtain a copy for my library to read on a rainy day?
I don't understand why something that is 45 years old needs to be kept away from the motoring enthusiasts.
What possible benefit is there keeping this type of info be it XW7 or whatever away from those who would want to read.
Imagine we had no Fiv Antonio book, no Norm Darwin, no Spotlight on Torana books etc etc.

Sorry but I can not supply you a Copy, I was not given the Full XW7 stuff, so I could make it Public.

[xu2308]

 
But I must add.......  I'm fuked if I know what you are trying to prove now...   I believe it is of general consensus that your car is one of the LJV8 program cars....  who cares what clutch peddle almost made it onto a car that almost existed.... ?   What are you trying to prove ??

It is one of the Cars as HHS records have that information, what People need to realise the Experimental Engineering Pre Production Cars (Which what the 3-V8 LJ GTR's were) They will have different things on them to the XW7 Engineering Parts List as that Parts List is done for the Pilot Cars to be built at the Factory. So Pre Production Cars will have different things Due to testing and Trialing things on them and see what works and what is not going to break etc. So at the end of the Day it is one of the Three GTR V8's, look at the Warranty Disc, it has the 3-GTR's that were built on the 13/4/1972 (000 M) and they are the 3-Cars.

[S pack]

There is no Fully updated Drawing, The XW7 Drawings that I have are it, Part number 2829791 is for XW7 and as Neil told you some Engineers Pencilled these in and due to been busy did not put it in the Box. You heard it from Neil the GMH guy. It appears you say that Clutch Pedal Part Number 2829791 was most likely intended for a RHD Export Car, lol where does this appears at ??? Show the Drawing for this appears. Where is the proof of your Appears ?? Speculating with update for Drawing and Appears are you not.

The evidence is there in your XW7 engineering drawings, open your fuking eyes!!!  Ben and I found it.

Neil also tells us that EXC can only mean one thing! Therefore it cannot mean EXCEPT M40 for one part and then EXCHANGE (or whatever other crap excuse you can come up with) for another part on the same drawing.

 

The engineer has written 2829791 exc XW7. His intended meaning is clear as day EXCEPT, EXCLUDING, NOT USED WITH XW7.

 

You can play join the dots the correct way and get a Christmas star or you can play it your way and get two dogs fuking.

 

 

 

[S pack]

It is one of the Cars as HHS records have that information, what People need to realise the Experimental Engineering Pre Production Cars (Which what the 3-V8 LJ GTR's were) They will have different things on them to the XW7 Engineering Parts List as that Parts List is done for the Pilot Cars to be built at the Factory. So Pre Production Cars will have different things Due to testing and Trialing things on them and see what works and what is not going to break etc. So at the end of the Day it is one of the Three GTR V8's, look at the Warranty Disc, it has the 3-GTR's that were built on the 13/4/1972 (000 M) and they are the 3-Cars.

You say the engineer told you the brace arm flange on your crossmember has been bent down to clear the V8 starter motor however, it has not been bent per the instruction on the engineering drawing. It is an unmolested, unmodified, factory standard 823, 825, 829 exc XU1 crossmember.

 

Oh, there's that 'exc' annotation again. NOT INCLUDING XU1.

Edited by S pack, 15 January 2017 - 07:52 AM.

[S pack]

Your lip is bent per the engineering instruction drawings is it Al?

 

Attached Files

•  STD LJ Crossmember forum member xgtr mod.png   648.68K   1 downloads
•  ALs prototype crossmember. 01.jpg   104.37K   1 downloads

[IMORAL]

So wouldn't the VIN tag prove it's one of the cars then?

[S pack]

So wouldn't the VIN tag prove it's one of the cars then?

What Vin Tag?

Al posted an old newspaper ad for his GTR from years ago and it stated in the ad that one of the ID tags was missing.

There is a pic in Torana Tough showing the PSN scratched into the reverse side of the Compliance Plate and that youtube video of Al's car showed the Body ID plate albeit out of focus and unreadable.

 

Ben has confirmed to me that by the numbers he has on record that AL's GTR is one of three 000m dealer coded Elizabeth build cars completed on the 13/04/1972 that were at Exp Engineering at the time of the XW7 programme but that is about all the numbers prove.

 

 

Edited by S pack, 15 January 2017 - 10:42 AM.

[Uncle Chop Chop]

No matter how you try to Wriggle, twist as well S pack, the XW7 part number for a new clutch pedal is on that Engineering Instruction drawing, Part Number 2829791: As Neil the Ex GMH guy has told you that some Engineers PENCILLED in and due to been busy never filled in the Box, Neil says that happened. Neil says

 

Neil the ex GMH guy? This is a screenshot of an edited email that could've been sent by anybody. And since the admin seem to think that glen is skap, how much truth is in that?

[S pack]

Neil the ex GMH guy? This is a screenshot of an edited email that could've been sent by anybody. And since the admin seem to think that glen is skap, how much truth is in that?

This is Neil Pogson's email address at the Holden Retirees Club if you want to ask him Vick.

[email protected]

Edited by S pack, 15 January 2017 - 05:41 PM.