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Missing engine capacity stamp

Started by _Dan H_ , Feb 25 2017 08:27 PM

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20 replies to this topic

#1 _Dan H_

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Posted 25 February 2017 - 08:27 PM

Hi everyone, I'm hopeful for some constructive advice.

I've recently bought a Torana which was previously a 202 and now a V8. I was told it's a 308 and has a mild cam with extractors though the rest appears stock. When asked my mechanic said it performs like a 308 but I checked the engine code and it says QR and built 7 Feb 1973.

As many of you will know that means a high compression 253, not 308. I see that it's running a 650 Holley and doesn't appear to be drowning which I would expect for a 253.

To solve the problem, I've checked for the block cast capacity (stamped on side) though it's not there and there's no sign of it being machined or ground off. It's just not there.

I know the very early 253's didn't have the numbers on the block though by 1973 they were on the block.

If anyone can offer any explaination I'd be very grateful.

But the way, there's no sign of the engine numbers being re-stamped. I've compared with other blocks and it appears to be the factory stamp.

Cheers,

Dan.

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#2 gtrboyy

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Posted 25 February 2017 - 08:52 PM

QR is 253 engine number QT is 308

Quite common to restamp block with original numbers onto new block after machining/decking block as numbers get wiped off.

Saved trip to blue slip station & rta or fitting all the extra pollution gear of a later engine.

Early engines had 253/308 later had 5.0 etc then last of bunch vt had nothing but * or star symbol.

If it's turbo bolt pattern obviously not 253 also casting date codes can confuse most people.

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#3 _Dan H_

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Posted 25 February 2017 - 09:06 PM

Thanks GTR boy for your reply and interesting info about engine numbers. The date code is definately 7 Feb 73 no probs there. Any suggestions as to why the block doesn't have any capacity on the side considering its a 73 cast?

Also it's now running a Supra box.

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Edited by Dan H, 25 February 2017 - 09:06 PM.

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#4 Collo

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Posted 25 February 2017 - 10:02 PM

308 upgrade hiding as the previous engine?

Someone's taken the numbers off the side, restamped a 253 number on it?

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#5 S pack

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Posted 25 February 2017 - 10:39 PM

Some pics of the engine number, cast date and the sides of the block where the CI capacity is usually cast may be useful.

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#6 rodomo

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Posted 25 February 2017 - 10:51 PM

I think Victoria had a law at one stage that P platers could only drive 253's, not 308's?...................................Just sayin

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#7 _Bomber Watson_

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Posted 25 February 2017 - 11:15 PM

Your mechanic can sit in the drivers seat and guage whether its a 253 or 308?

Even after its had a little bit of work done?

Cunning Stunt must have Jesus Buttocks to be able to figure that one out.

Get a new Mechanic that doesnt lie to you.

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#8 S pack

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Posted 26 February 2017 - 12:01 AM

The Blue 253 in VC/VH HOLDEN COMMODORE and WB HOLDEN commercials came factory fitted with the same Rochester Quadrajet 780cfm carb (jetted to suit the 253) as the 308, so I doubt a 650 Holley will drown a 253 if set up properly.

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#9 gtrboyy

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Posted 26 February 2017 - 01:01 AM

Seat of pants driving wont tell you much...308 can be just as slow as 253.

Could be number of reasons not knowing history of car or engine,a lot can happen in 40 years...would not be surprised if later 308 block with 253 red numbers & 308/5.0 casting ground off.

Never really cared for casting dates think easy to mix up cast date years.

650 holley would drown most 253's where as higher flowing yet nicer quaddie wouldn't....holley easier to understand

Edited by gtrboyy, 26 February 2017 - 01:03 AM.

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#10 _Dan H_

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Posted 26 February 2017 - 07:33 AM

Thanks everyone for your input. As for my mechanics opinion, it's taken as just that, opinion. But it's based on qualification and a lot of experience with old Holdens. Of course it's not conclusive and he would never suggest that. It just got me thinking to look further and reach out on this forum for other opinions.

I'll take some photos of the block capacity numbers when I put it up on the host next as there extractors are in the way and difficult to see when not on the hoist. Will post photos of the car date and engine number soon.

Cheers everyone.

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#11 _Dan H_

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Posted 26 February 2017 - 07:36 AM

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#12 _Dan H_

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Posted 26 February 2017 - 07:38 AM

Better pic of the engine number

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#13 _Muzzy_

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Posted 26 February 2017 - 05:46 PM

Why don't use get a cylinder at bottom dead centre , easy to find and fill it with liquid ( diesel or kero) thru spark plug hole, a 308 will be ball park 630cc a 253 will be 520 cc per cylinder

Why don't use get a cylinder at bottom dead centre , easy to find and fill it with liquid ( diesel or kero) thru spark plug hole, a 308 will be ball park 630cc a 253 will be 520 cc per cylinder

Bloody auto correct
Measure a cylinder volume at BDC

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#14 _Dan H_

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Posted 26 February 2017 - 07:28 PM

Thanks Muzzy, that's a bit past my capability though I have a few mates who will help. Good idea! Thanks.

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#15 _Muzzy_

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Posted 26 February 2017 - 08:26 PM

Thanks Muzzy, that's a bit past my capability though I have a few mates who will help. Good idea! Thanks.
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Go to a local vet and get a big ass horse syringe. And some 3/16 or 1/4 plastic tube, to fit on the end. Some diesel, find the easiest spark plug to get to, remove and using an old coat hanger feed the wire into the cylinder until it touches the piston turn the engine over and the wire will either rise or fall when the wire is in as far it will go you have reached BDC, now draw up the diesel and fill the cylinder , writing down the amount, once finished turn the engine over and push the diesel out, bit messy, then use the syringe draw any remaining fuel out. Have fun!

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#16 _Dan H_

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Posted 26 February 2017 - 08:29 PM

Thanks Muzzy seems fairly straight forward and should give me that elusive answer I've been looking for!

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#17 8BALL

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Posted 26 February 2017 - 10:32 PM

Aaaaaaaaand if someone has rebuilt the 253 with a stroker crank your mechanic would now?

Mate years ago wanted a 308. But his insurance company said no to that as to powerful.
That freaked his parents out. So 253 was it.
So we just stroked it to 292 and done head work cam etc and it shat on a stock 308. So the idea of no 308 was pointless.

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#18 yel327

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Posted 27 February 2017 - 07:21 AM

I don't think it is a 1973 253 block. If it was the sand mould cast date should be B73. I'd be 90% confident it is a VP block. It shouldn't be blank though, it should have 5.0 on the side. From about May 1994 the blocks had the engine capacity removed off the side as HSV were also making the 350ci version so 5.0 was no longer applicable.

Take a photo of the back of the block where the gearbox bolts up, it will show clearly if it is a pre 1974 block or not. The engine number is not far off from being right for a block cast early in 1973, which is what puts some doubt in my mind.

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#19 _Dan H_

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Posted 02 March 2017 - 01:25 PM

Great thanks Yel327 I'll grab some more photos shortly. For what it's worth (probably not much) it appears to be a Holden stud pattern.

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#20 _Dan H_

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Posted 02 March 2017 - 07:37 PM

I don't think it is a 1973 253 block. If it was the sand mould cast date should be B73. I'd be 90% confident it is a VP block. It shouldn't be blank though, it should have 5.0 on the side. From about May 1994 the blocks had the engine capacity removed off the side as HSV were also making the 350ci version so 5.0 was no longer applicable.

Take a photo of the back of the block where the gearbox bolts up, it will show clearly if it is a pre 1974 block or not. The engine number is not far off from being right for a block cast early in 1973, which is what puts some doubt in my mind.