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Driving Unregistered and Uninisured


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#1 hanra

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Posted 21 June 2017 - 10:36 AM

I would like to share with you a situation that I have just been through. Long story short, I was caught by a Police vehicle mounted number plate recognition camera, driving my daily driver unregistered and uninsured. It was 45 days overdue. Qld has only recently shifted across to removing Registration Stickers from car windows and as such you can get caught out if you rely on that as your visual reminder. I had not received my initial renewal notice nor my overdue notice and as such, having 5 vehicle registrations it has been missed and has gone un-paid.

 

The responsibility is on yourself, the operator of the vehicle to ensure that it is a registered and (CTP) insured vehicle. If you receive a renewal notice, there is a pamphlet inside which explains you can check your rego via the DTMR website or download a Rego Check app for your smartphone.

 

I was issued with 2 infringement notices $292 for un-registered, $497 for un-insured. I was obviously still paying my comprehensive insurance, however in Qld CTP insurance forms part of your registration renewal. I was also issued with a Type 2 Pre-Impoundment Notice valid for 5 years as part of the Anti-Hooning laws.

 

Basically, if I am caught driving unregistered and uninsured, unlicensed, high range drink driving, 40kph over the speed limit OR drive a modified vehicle not in compliance with the safety standards, the car I am operating is impounded there and then for 7 days, if I am caught again, the car is impounded for 3 months, final strike within 5 years and it is seized.

 

This really concerns me as the officer on the side of the road is able to be the judge jury and executioner in making the decision on if that modification is not in compliance with the safety standards. Does that include mag wheels? An aftermarket air filter? Its very open ended and down to office discretion.

 

I did not receive my registration renewal and overdue notices for 2 of my cars purely because there is no postal service where I live, I have a PO Box set up in town and also a Mail redirection service from my old address to my PO Box.

 

However when I first moved house in Dec 2015, I attempted to log onto the DTMR website to change my details, however I was locked out from too many unsuccessful attempts, so I called the DTMR call centre and advised that I had just moved house, I was asked what my new address was and I advised my physical address. Perhaps I was flustered from waiting on hold for 20mins or cranky from not being able to log onto the website, but I failed to advise the DTMR of my Postal Address, a PO Box in town…

 

After that call I continued on with my life, changing my address details with about 20 other institutions as you do. Feb 2016 my little red car’s rego became expired, and in August 2016 my daily driver’s rego became expired.

 

After this incident, I put in a RTI request for the phone conversation I had with the DTMR and also the procedures handbook for how the DTMR handle a change of address request via the phone. Sure enough, I did not advise of my PO BOX, however the call centre did not follow procedure and confirm that the address I gave was also my postal address. Its written in caps lock bold red text….. So its obviously important….

 

I decided to take the matter to court to explain the situation, it was non-intentional and there were mitigating circumstances as to why I did not receive a renewal notice. I have not had an infringement for over 10yrs. And I was hoping to avoid the 5yr Type 2 Pre-Impoundment Notice hanging over my head….

 

I had sought legal advice from 3 different lawyers, but was quoted between $8800 and $5500 for representation so decided to go it alone. The DTMR flew up from Brisbane their Senior Principal Prosecutor, and the 2 police officers were called as witnesses.

 

The Magistrate asked me if I knew what the penalties were for these charges if I was convicted. I was under the impression it as just the $292 and $497 from the original infringement and court costs, but as it turned out I had to cover the costs of the Prosecutor’s time and travel from Brisbane, Court Costs and also 80 penalty units per charge……

 

So 160 penalty units in total. 1 Penalty Unit is worth $121.90, so a total penalty of $19,504 plus $1500 for the prosecutor plus $89 for court costs………… Almost $22,000.... I couldn’t believe it….. At that point I had to change my plea to guilty as I knew I would be found guilty for the unregistered charge as the law is written in a fashion that you have no defence. The uninsured charge does give you the ability to defend yourself however I couldn’t risk a possible $10,000 fine…..

 

So I did not get the chance to explain the situation or why I was in the position I was in… I was a bit disappointed about that in the end…. The magistrate handed down a $2000 fine and sent me on my way…
I spoke with the Prosecutor afterwards and he explained that I would never have won at all, and it would have set a precedent if I had of been found not guilty. He did say that if by some magic stroke of luck that I was found not guilty he would have appealed it until I was found guilty.

Long story….. but guys check your rego status. Set a reminder in your calendar of your phone with a reminder for the renewal date. Its no excuse if you don’t receive it, its your responsibility to ensure its up to date no matter what the circumstances. I admit I was driving the car, it was unregistered and uninsured, I am just so concerned about having my car impounded over the next 5yrs…….

 

I actually found one of my overdue notices sitting in a pile of letters at the post office nearest to where I live, but not where my PO Box is set up. They sit the letters in a neat little pile for 30 days, and then return them to sender. Its a shame as both Aust Post and DTMR have my email address and phone number. But no one makes any effort to unite the letters with their addressee. If I had a PO Box set up at that particular post office then they may have just slipped into the box.

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1BA06D84-0913-40AF-8376-56D687EE43F9_zps

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Edited by hanra, 21 June 2017 - 10:51 AM.


#2 Cook

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Posted 21 June 2017 - 10:51 AM

I'm sorry to here that Brad.  Can't fight city hall.  My son went through the same thing in Melbourne earlier this year.  No notice and the follow-up notice came a few days after he was pulled up and after the mandatory 14 (or 21 can't remember) days had expired.  If there is a bright side to the story, lucky you weren't in an accident during that period.  Cheers Ron



#3 bullitA9X

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Posted 21 June 2017 - 12:55 PM

Wow brad i did the same thing but i just copped it on the chin as i was on the wrong my dad had passed away and i just forgot as it was in the same week i buried him so had heaps on my mind i got a $280 fine i pleaded guilty without going to court but now i do a direct debit so my rego is always 2 months ahead...

#4 _LS1 Taxi_

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Posted 21 June 2017 - 12:55 PM

Shit.

The timing of this thread is frightening.

#5 hanra

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Posted 21 June 2017 - 01:13 PM

If I wasn't hit with that 5yr Type 2 pre-impoundment notice I would have just paid the $900 fine and went on my merry way. I just felt I had to try and fight it to try and explain to the magistrate why I was in the situation I was in hoping he could remove that. But unfortunately not.

#6 hanra

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Posted 21 June 2017 - 01:26 PM

Shit.

The timing of this thread is frightening.


Are you in a similar situation?

#7 RallyRed

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Posted 21 June 2017 - 02:56 PM

no good Brad.  

 

On a similar thing........

 

Had a mate here in NSW who is a licenced  eleco. Been employed as such for around 30 years.

He moved house, ( to  a new one in the same street, same suburb, i.e.house #21 to house #25 - 2 doors up ) ......... among the many places he advised of the address change,    the Dept of fair Trading  ( who do the licencing) was missed off the list.

 

Several years later they found him via his employer and advised he was now working unlicenced. His licence had expired a few years ago when the mailed out renewal notice bounced .The employer said no good....you better get a licence.

 

Although being a licenced tradey for around 30 years, the Dept. told him it was all just old news, and as he hadnt been licenced for 2 or 3 years, he would have to go back to TAFE do whatever study he needed to, and re sit his licence exams. ( called a Capstone Test here in NSW).

 

So now we have a 50 something year old tradey, who has worked in the trade since his appreticeship days, going back to TAFE to get the piece of paper, to say he is OK to do what he has been doing for 30 years.???.....with the employer looking over his shoulder saying ""we need to see that paperwork buddy"".

 

It all ended well after some stress, as he passed the test.

 

Cant will against 'em....but it seems unfair, particularly in your case where there were circumstances that should have been heard....but the legal system closes ranks.

 

The other inconvenient truth is  that allthese departments, banks etc always want your email address and phone number....yet seem unaware of how to use it?


Edited by RallyRed, 21 June 2017 - 02:57 PM.


#8 _toranalover_

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Posted 21 June 2017 - 03:02 PM

sorry to hear , but in this technological day and age with smartphones and rta  apps with rego reminders, i find it hard to believe people still forget to pay their rego and get caught. don't get me wrong i got done in 1992 driving unregistered being young and forgetful thinking you'll get away with anything , but i would never do it now with numberplate recognition etc etc so i always have regos and bills on my mind, never late,not  even a electricity bill....they can shove their late payment fees you know where lol


Edited by toranalover, 21 June 2017 - 03:04 PM.


#9 hanra

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Posted 21 June 2017 - 03:47 PM

Yeah I agree, I guess its just something that is not front and centre of your mind. And relying on that rego sticker on your window for so many years you tend to get into that habit. Personally I had no idea there was a smartphone app etc, the arresting officer told me about it on the side of the road, I downloaded it at the time as I didn't believe what they were telling me!!!!

 

But yes, I cant understand why we have to supply our email address and phone number etc if no one is ever going to use it?

 

I don't believe Ive ever paid a bill late either, actually I lie, during the same period when we moved house the solicitors used the residential address for our council rates, I had a phone call from the council to let me know it was overdue and that is when I found out the solicitors had not used my PO Box as was supplied to them. We are only 30klm from the CBD of Cairns, but no Australia Postal Service and no Telstra/Optus Mobile Service.



#10 r2160

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Posted 21 June 2017 - 04:58 PM

And if you had won, they would change the law to make it impossible for anybody to win again

#11 hanra

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Posted 21 June 2017 - 05:09 PM

This is what I was sort of hinging on, this paragraph does not exist for Registration. So they could remove this paragraph for Insirance.

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#12 _LS1 Taxi_

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Posted 21 June 2017 - 05:24 PM

Are you in a similar situation?


Sort of.
Some frOckwit pig cop pulled me over and fined me $150 for having P plates on when I'm not a P plater. I explained politely i was driving a customers car but the prick fined me anyway.

I elected for it to go to court and I'm reckoning I #@$^%& up.

#13 hanra

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Posted 21 June 2017 - 05:26 PM

Find the actual legislation and find out how many penalty units you could be up for. If you loose, it could be more than your initial fine...

#14 _LS1 Taxi_

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Posted 21 June 2017 - 05:39 PM

It's too late for that now.
It's going to court. I've no doubt it'll be more than the fine

#15 skap

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Posted 21 June 2017 - 05:58 PM

😂

#16 308 Sunbird

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Posted 21 June 2017 - 06:42 PM

That's a hard lesson learnt Brad but thanks for the heads up.



#17 IMORAL

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Posted 21 June 2017 - 07:37 PM

Holy crap

#18 tuxedoss

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Posted 21 June 2017 - 07:52 PM

When they got rid of rego labels in NSW the government made a big deal how they were doing us a big favour as it was such a hassle to put that sticker on once a year, I suspect they had other reasons, someone must have worked out they would save alot of money on stickers, or the cynic might say more money in fines



#19 hanra

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Posted 21 June 2017 - 08:10 PM

I actually found out from the DTMR Prosecutor that the stickers were purely there for the police to quickly identify unregistered cars, however now they have number plate recognition cameras they have no need for the stickers to be fitted. So the DTMR removed them from service.

#20 RallyRed

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Posted 21 June 2017 - 08:55 PM

Sort of.
Some frOckwit pig cop pulled me over and fined me $150 for having P plates on when I'm not a P plater. I explained politely i was driving a customers car but the prick fined me anyway.

I elected for it to go to court and I'm reckoning I #@$^%& up.

That's interesting..in NSW at least....I always believed that there was no written/actual requirement to remove L or P plates when those drivers were not in control of the vehicle.

Assuming the cop would know the law??...I must have been wrong all these years..

.



#21 hanra

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Posted 21 June 2017 - 09:05 PM

Definitely the law in QLD. You can't have L or P plates fitted if your not L or P plate licenced. However, the police regular fit P plates to there undercover cars.

#22 Potta

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Posted 21 June 2017 - 09:35 PM

WA they got rid of them to save money and its a fr0ckin scam.

 

We have a website where you can check if a rego is still valid or not and there is also a page that shows all your regos and when they're due on a timeline which is pretty cool.



#23 lakeside

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Posted 21 June 2017 - 09:46 PM

Same in Victoria and lot people got caught out by VicRoads not sending renewals. I was one of them and it cost me $800.

#24 dattoman

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Posted 21 June 2017 - 09:50 PM

WA they got rid of them to save money and its a fr0ckin scam.

 

We have a website where you can check if a rego is still valid or not and there is also a page that shows all your regos and when they're due on a timeline which is pretty cool.

 

 

This.. plus I get 2 email alerts on each rego 1 month and 2 weeks before due.. .and sometimes a thirdt a day or 2 after due if I'm slow to pay



#25 LJ RB30

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Posted 21 June 2017 - 09:51 PM

sorry to hear , but in this technological day and age with smartphones and rta  apps with rego reminders, i find it hard to believe people still forget to pay their rego and get caught. don't get me wrong i got done in 1992 driving unregistered being young and forgetful thinking you'll get away with anything , but i would never do it now with numberplate recognition etc etc so i always have regos and bills on my mind, never late,not  even a electricity bill....they can shove their late payment fees you know where lol

 

Yeah technology is great IF

 

a: it actually frOcking works!!

 

 

b: you actually know there is a website/app etc that you apparently know you MUST have!!

 

 

c: these c u n ts actually admit when THEY #@$^%& up !!!!! YEAH RIGHT!!!

 

 

 

My experience

 

Some years ago West Australia decided to stop issuing rego labels!

 

Apparently it was going to save them money! it was some pitiful amount like $50000!!

 

 

Then few years back the West Australia rego mob DPI updated their computer system!!

 

At the time i was using the wifes Hyundai as a daily driver & runabout when i had the kids ( we were separated at the time) and she had the VX wagon.

 

Out of the blue i received a letter containing a final demand for not paying the fine for not handing in the plates!!  WTF!!!!!!!!!

 

In WA you get ( supposedly)

 

1: a rego renewal

 

2: a renewal reminder

 

3: if not renewed you must 1: inform the DPI that you have put the vehicle off the road to rebuild/store etc but still in your name/possession etc

 

If you do not inform them what you have done/doing with the vehicle they will fine you for not handing in the plates of the unregistered vehicle

 

Having no label on the car & having 4 other car regos, 2 motorbikes & a trailer it can be hard to keep on top off them

 

The Hyundai has ALWAYS been registered at my address.

 

I have always been the only person living here after i split with my wife.

 

When i rang the DPI & asked why the hell i had been issued with the fine as i had not been sent a

 

1: a renewal

 

2: a reminder

 

3: a fine for not handing the plates in

 

They said that they were sent but they had all been returned!

 

 

I said that was bullshit cose i am the ONLY resident & why would 3 letters be returned but the final demand for the fine was delivered???

 

They did not have an answer & said that the car would have to go over the pit!

 

 

Their computer upgrade was a frOck up for many many months & i spoke to a few others at work that had similar issues with the DPI !!

 

Luckily i didnt get pulled up in the car but it didnt get regoed again which was a pity cose it was reliable, economical & went well but the interior was falling apart so i bought a $1200 VS on gas!

 

There was a few write ups in the paper about how much EXTRA money they made in fines due to no labels etc!!

 

ASSHOLES

 

So anyone that tries to tell me that you must upgrade your computer/phone/tv etc cose it will be better & more awesome then i will tell them only if i can insert a 3 phase probe into their anus & if their UPGRADE isn't as wonderful & simple & so much better & easy as they say then i get to push the button!!!

 

 

And before some of the IT people call me a ludite may i say

 

i have had a computer for over 25 years

 

Built a few of them too

 

I work on PLC & computer controlled machines ! Some are DOS based!

 

Many IT people these days dont know what a DOS based program is! Let along why it doesnt work when they say "JUST" upgrade to 7,8,10 etc etc frOcking etc!!!

 

Anyway my rant over!!

 

Time for more beer!!






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