20 replies to this topic

[73TORANA!]

Hi All,

Found this article in an old Australian Motor Manual magazine 1972. I for one am glad it never happend although it would have been interesting.

Cheers  rotary.jpg   350.03K   8 downloads  73 Tori.jpg   293.05K   4 downloads 

[Steve TPF]

 Funny how these "jetson car" promises never became real. 45 years on, and the 4-stroke banger is still the number one choice for vehicles. Maybe there's a reason for that? 

 

The rotary is much simpler mechanically - but it never replaced the piston engine. Electric cars sound good in theory - but the range sucks and last time I checked most need specialised chargers and fancy wiring to your house - not a standard 10-amp wall socket. 

 

 Car manufacturers exist to make money - and we all know how tight-ass they are. Why do they keep selling complicated internal combustion engines with dozens of moving parts, plus numerous ancillary devices and expensive induction and exhaust systems that have to comply with an ever-increasing number of environmental laws?

 

Maybe, because it's the only thing that REALLY delivers for the vast majority of customers. It's been that way for about a century - and I don't expect it to change soon.

[axistr]

I recently read a report that Volvo will stop making petrol powered cars from the third quarter 2019. looks like its a battery box or diesel only.

[Steve TPF]

I recently read a report that Volvo will stop making petrol powered cars from the third quarter 2019. looks like its a battery box or diesel only.

 

 

You evidently didn't read it right.

 

https://www.theguard...ric-hybrid-2019

 

All new cars launched by Volvo from 2019 onwards will be partially or completely battery-powered, in what the company called a “historic end” to building models that only have an internal combustion engine.

 

Between 2019 and 2021, the firm will introduce five 100% electric models, and ensure the rest of its conventional petrol and diesel range has a hybrid engine of some form. It is the first major manufacturer to make such a bold move.

 

Håkan Samuelsson, the Volvo chief executive, said: “This announcement marks the end of the solely combustion engine-powered car.”

 

 

 Take note of the sections I've put in bold for you. They aren't going to "all electric" or "diesel only. It's electric OR HYBRID.

 

Hybrid cars have the same convenience of petrol/diesel - you can refill the tank in minutes rather than charge a battery pack for hours. Electric-only cars might well suit people with a short daily commute but for many people they aren't practical. The internal combustion engine will be around for years to come. Especially in a country like Oz. Long travel distances and you can guarantee that our politicians won't lift a finger to build the kind of infrastructure that would make electric cars viable for most.

[Zook]

The rotary is much simpler mechanically

Sure. These are most of the seals that comprise a rotary motor. You'll note the 4 oil scraper rings and the 3 parts or so that comprise them are missing from the photo plus probably some other bits I've forgotten. Plus e-shaft, bearings, rotors, plates, housings, pumps, etc. Rotors are a great engine but to say they are simple is not true. They are also inefficient at most throttle settings, hence their demise.

Attached Files

•  1504857295814.jpg   220.81K   5 downloads

Edited by Zook, 08 September 2017 - 06:14 PM.

[Zook]

It's no more difficult to set up a line that produces e-shafts and housings than crankshafts and blocks. The difference is only in chroming the housing surface and even then that's not difficult. I've forgotten what the question was.

[Cook]

This thread just made me think.  What ever happened to Ralph Sarich and his orbital engine.  I vaguely remember he sold the IP to someone (not that I believe he needed the money) but haven't heard anything further.  Cheers Ron 

[hanra]

Wouldn't that have been awesome! It would have really livened the ol Torana up a bit! Shame it never eventuated.

What a sound!

https://youtu.be/crGZC4BSPdQ

[Zook]

That. Is. A. Cool. Noise.
Bomber, it's not that simple. Rotors are cast and then parts of it are machined but not in the same way as a piston. The whole rotor is not machined to shape, it's cast. And the whole 'funky' rotor housing steel shape is not machined, it's cast. The steel chrome hardened surface is then cast into the aluminium outer housing. More after the 3rd qtr...

[dattoman]

Wouldn't that have been awesome! It would have really livened the ol Torana up a bit! Shame it never eventuated.

What a sound!

https://youtu.be/crGZC4BSPdQ

 

 

Ah but did it.... did they get it to prototype stage... does it exist ?

[hanra]

Bit like the Corvette with a Quad Rotor! That would have been cool also.

Such a shame that good rotors are fetching the same sort of dollars as Toranas these days. Hard to afford a RX3 coupe.

Edited by hanra, 08 September 2017 - 10:31 PM.

[Ice]

Wasnt there a HJ Holden built with a Mazda rotary engine ??

I think it was a Premier and called a Roadpacer

[MictheAussie]

Looks like it would have been essentially a Chevy Vega with a rotary in it. Might ave been the demise of an Australian designed Torana.

[axistr]

You evidently didn't read it right.

 

https://www.theguard...ric-hybrid-2019

 

 

 

 

 Take note of the sections I've put in bold for you. They aren't going to "all electric" or "diesel only. It's electric OR HYBRID.

 

Hybrid cars have the same convenience of petrol/diesel - you can refill the tank in minutes rather than charge a battery pack for hours. Electric-only cars might well suit people with a short daily commute but for many people they aren't practical. The internal combustion engine will be around for years to come. Especially in a country like Oz. Long travel distances and you can guarantee that our politicians won't lift a finger to build the kind of infrastructure that would make electric cars viable for most.

 

Maybe different author and different spin on Volvo's media release. The author wrote that by 2019 Volvo would no longer invest money in petrol engine technology for their cars. With diesel technology advancements in the last decade they would continue to develop them as they felt economy and performance out striped petrol engines. The report also stated that battery powered only or battery/diesel hybrid power would be the company's choice for future cars and didn't mention continuation of petrol engines. We will have to see which way Volvo goes.

 

I think Tesla is starting to put a Korean rocket up many car manufactures.      

[meanmachine72]

and then theres this

 

[S pack]

Wasnt there a HJ Holden built with a Mazda rotary engine ??

I think it was a Premier and called a Roadpacer

Mazda Roadpacer AP

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

Mazda Roadpacer AP Overview Manufacturer Mazda Production 1975–1977 Body and chassis Class Full-size car Body style Sedan Layout Front-engine, rear-wheel drive Related Holden HJ Premier Powertrain Engine 1.3 L 13B Wankel Dimensions Wheelbase 1,530 mm (60 in) Length 4,850 mm (191 in) Width 1,885 mm (74 in) Height 1,465 mm (58 in) Curb weight 1,575 kg (3,472 lb)

 

The Mazda Roadpacer AP (Anti Pollution) is a full-size sedan that was sold by Mazda in Japan between 1975 and 1977, although the last car was not sold until 1979. It was based on the Australian Holden HJ and HX series Premier.^[1] Premiers were shipped to Japan without engines, and Mazda fitted a 1.3-liter 13B Wankel engine into the bay. Although the engine produced 100 kilowatts (130 hp) and 138 newton metres (102 lb·ft) of torque, the Roadpacer performed rather poorly as it weighed 1,575 kilograms (3,472 lb). The Roadpacer was introduced to compete with large Japanese flagship sedans Toyota Century, Nissan President, Isuzu Statesman de Ville, and the Mitsubishi Debonair.

While the 13B produced more power than the Red series motors that powered the equivalent Holdens, the lack of torque meant performance was restrained with a 166-kilometre-per-hour (103 mph) top speed, poor acceleration and terrible fuel consumption. Contemporary reports suggest 9 mpg (26 L per 100 km). The vehicle was not in compliance with Japanese regulations concerning engine displacement and exterior dimensions, and was classed in the mid-size car segment, while the engine displacement placed it in the lower annual road tax brackets. If the car was recognized as being for business use as an executive company car, the road tax bill was very minimal.

While the Holden HJ Premier itself was well equipped, Mazda decided to add more. Gadgets of note include a central locking system that activated when the car hit 10 km/h (6.2 mph), a chime system that activated at 90 km/h (56 mph), a dictation system and a stereo able to be controlled from both front and back seats.

 

The price was also considered high at 3.8 million yen (US$10,000) in 1975. This was about twice the price of a contemporary Mazda Cosmo or Mazda Luce. Originally intended as transport for high-ranking government officials, the car was sold in the wake of the first fuel crisis and was not a commercial success. Production ceased in 1977 with only 800 units sold.

The Roadpacer AP has the sole distinction of being the only General Motors product being fitted for production with a rotary engine.

Most were sold to government departments and were later crushed, meaning Roadpacers are rare nowadays; their counterpart model, the Holden Premier is considered a classic car in Australia.

Edited by S pack, 09 September 2017 - 08:54 AM.

[hanra]

There is a kingo with a 20B in it floating around I've seen some fb videos of it. That would be the go.

https://youtu.be/aDa-h3RcTkk

[S pack]