25 replies to this topic

[mugginz]

Having trouble finding any pics of how the factory did the guard cut and shut.

 

I can find info on how individuals have done it to their cars but it'd be nice to see how the factory thought to do it.

 

Anyone got any pics of the factory mods?

 

Thanks,

Greg.

[tsn007]

THe GMH factory did not install the flares it was the local Holden dealer (apprentices) that cut the guards , 

[mugginz]

Did the factory issue any guidance on how to cut the guards? Or more importantly, their preferred method of welding up the guards again.

[Dr Terry]

THe GMH factory did not install the flares it was the local Holden dealer (apprentices) that cut the guards , 

It wasn't at just 'any' local Holden dealer. AFAIK the A9Xs, were transported from the Dandenong plant to Bill Patterson Holden at Ringwood in Melbourne, to have the flares fitted. The cars were then transported back to the Holden plant to be finished off.

 

I'm not sure about the L34s though, I believe that these were done in-house by GM-H. This was probably deemed to be too labour intensive, so they contacted the A9Xs out.

 

On the subject of the exact cutting out procedure, I'm sure there would have been some factory drawings on the subject to be used as guidance.

 

Dr Terry

[mugginz]

On the subject of the exact cutting out procedure, I'm sure there would have been some drawings on the subject.

Would make sense that that's the case. The most interesting part for me though would be how they welded the inner and outer guards back together. Whether they were spot welded or just migged back together.

[Statler]

Rear guard on the L34 were cut with a reciprocating saw & left as cut.  They weren't filled in or welded. They were race cars. 

[unclefestal34s]

having owned a quite a few original L34's I can tell you there was nothing special the way they were cut in fact the cuts were there ordinary to say the least,.if your cutting your guards to duplicate a L34 and plan on running big wheels then cut big..

[mugginz]

I've determined how much material would need to be removed for 18" wheels by removing the springs and noting the height of have to go to at full compression so at this stage I'm more wondering not so much how they were cut but more about how they were reattached.

For L34 sounds like they weren't but for a road going car they'd have to be.

I'd guess that A9X were reattached

Edited by mugginz, 07 December 2017 - 01:08 PM.

[Dr Terry]

I don't understand why the two cars would've been built differently. Both the L34 & A9X were built & sold as registrable road-going cars. They were both homologation specials, basically meant to be raced, but many weren't.

 

Having said that, they were both pretty rough underneath, just what was required & nothing more.

 

Dr Terry

[Shiney005]

I'm afraid Greg that with what these cars are now worth, and the amount of fakes that are around, I don't like the idea of putting up a photo of mine. Most things about L34s and A9Xs are fairly well known, but there are still a few secrets that few know about, and it will be these things that differentiate between a clone and the real thing.

With your car, just find the thread with the method you like best and go with that. 

Dr Terry, as far as who carried out the work, I believe it was Patterson - Cheney for both the L34 and A9X. Another aside was the amount of A9Xs wearing L34 flares at the recent 40th anniversary weekend over here. The change over to the wider rear flares must have been fairly late in the production run.

[Bigfella237]

I know I've seen a picture posted here somewhere that showed how the L34s were cut, I think it was from a service bulletin or something, but buggered if I can find it now. I thought I had it saved somewhere too but I can't find that either?

 

As above, the rears especially were very roughly done but having worked for a dealer fitting accessories to new cars myself (mainly 4WD gear) I can tell ya the first few you do are nerve-racking, but once you've done a hundred of them you just hack into 'em like it's an old shitter from a junkyard, especially when the service manager is riding you to do it in half the time it's supposed to take!

 

If you saw a "genuine" one now you'd wonder what bodgie bastard had done it.

[Bigfella237]

Found it...

 

[RallyRed]

Hi regarding chopping the reards on the 4 doors.Reckon they must have somehow welded or sealed them after they did it . I took the grinder to my 4 door LX back in the day..as it had the flares and 14 x 9 wheels , but had never been cut so they rubbed from time to time with rear passengers. Being young and dumb I cut cut and was done. Every timeI drove it in the rain after that..the back footwells filled with about 2 inches of water. Must have ran down inside of rear gaurds. Oops

[mugginz]

I'm afraid Greg that with what these cars are now worth, and the amount of fakes that are around, I don't like the idea of putting up a photo of mine. Most things about L34s and A9Xs are fairly well known, but there are still a few secrets that few know about, and it will be these things that differentiate between a clone and the real thing.
With your car, just find the thread with the method you like best and go with that.

 

I understand the concern about people building fakes.  I'm not worried about duplicating the factory aperture exactly or anything like that, I'm more interested in the way they welded (or didn't) the hole up.  ie. spot welds/seam welds/etc. from a compliance point of view it'd probably be hard to argue against the factory style mod.

 

From NCOP6_Section_LH_Body_and_Chassis_01Jan2011_v3.pdf

 

 

 

 

 

And further from NCOP2_Introduction_1Jan2011_v2.pdf

 

 

 

So I think it's fair to say that bolt-ons and mods to inner guards are no problem but for thoroughness I was hoping to use the factory style re-attachment method for the inner guard to outer guard.  Mods to the outer guard aren't directly addressed by the above points in the NCOP documents (though I might've missed them in other sections) so from a belt and suspenders point of view from a compliance standpoint  I'd like to use the factory method as long as it was a sound method (witch gong by the L34 way of doing things, it wouldn't be.)

Copies of the CAMS recognition paperwork, as Andrew has posted above, can be found in Fiv's other book "History Of The Holden V8".

As above L34 page 281, A9X Hatch page 306 & sedan page 308.

 

Might have to get my hands on a copy, thanks.

[mugginz]

I guess if I was to follow NCOP6 Section 4.5 INNER MUDGUARD MODIFICATION as close as possible



And I both plug welded and seam welded them together no engineer could argue with that.

Edited by mugginz, 07 December 2017 - 08:32 PM.

[Bigfella237]

I doubt the NCOP would ever come into it as most people generally regard flares as a 'factory option' on any LH / LX Torana anyway. Same goes for the old school drop tanks, which clearly shouldn't pass departure angle checks, but many got passed because they were so common that everybody thought "surely they must be legal". However things aren't what they used to be in the good ole days...

 

I'd love to see scans of the relevant CAMS documents for the A9X's if anyone has them?

[Shiney005]

I'll do it in the Morning Andrew. I didn't know they were there as I had never finished reading that book. There was a fair bit of bullsh1t in the first half of it.

[mugginz]

Copies of the CAMS recognition paperwork, as Andrew has posted above, can be found in Fiv's other book "History Of The Holden V8".

As above L34 page 281, A9X Hatch page 306 & sedan page 308.

 

Just ordered a copy of this book.  Hopefully wont be too long in the post.

[Shiney005]

The CAMS documents are good, (still no pics of inner guards) but don't take any other specs in there as gospel.

Edited by Shiney005, 08 December 2017 - 10:58 AM.

[mugginz]

The CAMS documents are good, (still no pics of inner guards) but don't take any other specs in there as gospel.

 

Might have to check out an actual car at a car show or something to get a proper idea

[mugginz]

Any up and coming car shows in the vicinity of Geelong/Melbourne that are likely to have an A9X there?

[Shiney005]

The A9X cutouts were quite different to the L34 ones as you can see in the pic. They aren't cut as high as the L34 and the job looks a lot neater.

 06n0.jpg   93.98K   10 downloads

 

My L34 has had the guards cut roughly and then sealed up with a semi hard seam sealer the same as what is used in the wheel wells of other Toranas. Without removing the sealer, it is impossible to say how they were welded back up if at all.

 

[Bigfella237]

Interesting...
 

Width of Car at Centre line of Rear Axle.
 
1841.5 - 1816mm [or] 72.5 - 71.5 inches.

I assume that would be the widest part of the car, which would be the flares, but why so much variance? Did they measure many different cars and all fell within that range? Or did different people measure the same car and all come up with different answers?
 
From my notes I see that Craig (Eyepeeler) measured his L34 from the outside of one flare to the other and came up with:
 
Front  1770mm or 69.7 inches
Rear   1785mm or 70.3 inches
 
Which puts the A9X rear flares between 1.3 ~ 2.3 inches (31 ~ 57mm) wider than L34 rear flares.

Edited by Bigfella237, 08 December 2017 - 06:32 PM.