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How to check LC/LJ Crossmember for center

Started by _Housecat1977_ , Dec 29 2017 05:46 PM

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22 replies to this topic

#1 _Housecat1977_

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Posted 29 December 2017 - 05:46 PM

Hi all, ever since I replaced the engine (15 years ago and been in storage ever since), the engine has been off center towards the passenger side.

I did some measurements today and while the chassis rails are square, the crossmember seems to be offset to the passenger side by about 30mm which is the same amount the engine is offset by.

I think it is from when I replaced the crossmember bushes and didn't fit it back correctly.

Onto my question, before I loosen the crossmember bolts and try to move things around, is there anything that I may have missed or should look for and measure to double check my thinking?
Cheers Paul

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#2 _Housecat1977_

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Posted 29 December 2017 - 05:57 PM

Here are some pics to show my problem.

Here is the engine with a Centre line to show how bad it is.

8BF0EE79-637A-4C26-A3AA-3FCCC828A91D.jpeg 269.14K 12 downloads
It is over about 30mm

1C1AA791-B34D-4A58-B9F6-BE7CA39E1186.jpeg 264.81K 10 downloads
Here are the upper control arm shafts that are also over by about 30mm

46110EEA-714E-44D8-806F-071CB037EAB0.jpeg 63K 9 downloads

DE5479C5-6F7E-4808-9629-3C1F372F89B9.jpeg 50.4K 8 downloads

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#3 _Bomber Watson_

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Posted 29 December 2017 - 06:17 PM

You either have the engine mounts around the wrong way or the gearbox x member around the wrong way.

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#4 S pack

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Posted 29 December 2017 - 06:58 PM

Pics of your engine mounts might help.

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#5 _Housecat1977_

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Posted 29 December 2017 - 08:00 PM

Here are the engine mounts and trans crossmember. I'm pretty sure they are correct but it is good to have a second set of eyes to check it.

Drivers side

20171229_195706.jpg 135.66K 18 downloads

Passenger side

20171229_195803.jpg 123.07K 21 downloads

Rear of trans crossmember

20171229_195910.jpg 213.4K 9 downloads

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#6 _Bomber Watson_

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Posted 29 December 2017 - 08:19 PM

Ok thats bizzare the usual trick is to have both infront or both behind on the engine mounts but you appear to have them correct.

Have you tried pullign the gearbox x member off, flipping it around and putting it back on?

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#7 S pack

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Posted 29 December 2017 - 08:52 PM

Have you checked the rear transmission mount is still OK? Push on the end of the transmission extension housing and propeller shaft yoke to see if the transmission is secure.

Edited by S pack, 29 December 2017 - 08:55 PM.

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#8 gtrboyy

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Posted 29 December 2017 - 08:53 PM

Looks more like engine mount or trans out of alignment mainly at rear from those pics.

Have you tried cracking loose all mount bolts then levering it over or even lifting with engine hoist?

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#9 _Arron_

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Posted 29 December 2017 - 08:54 PM

Has the passenger side engine mount sagged more than the drivers side ?

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#10 _Housecat1977_

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Posted 29 December 2017 - 09:46 PM

Thanks for the ideas guys. Looks like I have some measurements and checks to do in the morning. Will report back with my findings.

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#11 _duggan208_

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Posted 29 December 2017 - 09:59 PM

That is weird, my Scientific Publications manual "ensure that the right hand engine plate is behind its mount and the left hand engine plate is in front of its mount. Otherwise the engine will not be correctly aligned in the vehicle.

regards

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#12 _Housecat1977_

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Posted 29 December 2017 - 10:25 PM

I should clarify, in the pic with the yellow tape, the left edge of the tape is the centerline of the engine bay. I'll retake the pic tomorrow using a string line so it is less confusing.

Also, after a bit of late night in my head maths, I reckon the trans crossmember would need to be almost 90mm out for it to move the front of the engine about 30mm so am leaning (see what I did there?) towards a collapsed engine mount or the crossmember being located incorrectly.

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#13 madtoranajzedded

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Posted 30 December 2017 - 11:49 AM

Is there any variances between the engine
plates between models..

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#14 _Housecat1977_

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Posted 30 December 2017 - 02:41 PM

Good question Maz, the block I used is out of a HK, it has 186P in the block number. Were there any casting differences between HK and LC blocks or engine mounts and brackets?

Also here is a pic with a string for the centre line.

20171230_133637.jpg 260.38K 10 downloads

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#15 gtrboyy

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Posted 30 December 2017 - 02:54 PM

Maybe try bolting driver's engine mount to back of engine bracket so it's similar to passenger side?

Would be easier side to get to although fitting new mounts while it's apart be handy time to do it.

AFAIK lc/j mounts are only engine bracket that fit baby toranas...hk & lx/hg brackets probably different due to different sumps

Edited by gtrboyy, 30 December 2017 - 02:58 PM.

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#16 308 Sunbird

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Posted 31 December 2017 - 08:23 AM

Mate l think you were right at the start- the whole K-frame looks out and l would be sus on those Nol red bushes

as well if they were done 15 years ago.

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#17 _Housecat1977_

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Posted 31 December 2017 - 08:55 AM

So after messing around yesterday trying to move the chassis over on the crossmember with no luck, don't worry those bushes will be replaced before too long, this morning I started measuring things again.
On inspection of the engine brackets, I have found that the engine bracket on the passenger side is the culprit. The engine brackets off of the HK are different to the LC and I must have mixed them up when reinstalling the engine.
Measuring from top bolt hole to bottom produces a difference of approximately 10-15mm.
Here are some pics for reference
HK bracket currently installed.

20171231_083910.jpg 212.13K 5 downloads

LC bracket waiting for a new home.

20171231_083959.jpg 161.78K 4 downloads

I bought a couple of chrome one's to neaten the engine a bit but only did the drivers one as it is easiest but looks like I'll be doing the other one soon enough.

Thanks for all the help guys. Hopefully it is all that needs to be done.

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#18 RallyRed

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Posted 31 December 2017 - 09:00 AM

Has the passenger side engine mount sagged more than the drivers side ?

yeah....the passenger side does look to have a heap bigger gap from the mount to the hook.....i.e. compressed/collapsed?

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post-7280-0-94405200-1514541183.jpg 43.67K 4 downloads
post-7280-0-11926700-1514541252.jpg 60.56K 3 downloads

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#19 _Housecat1977_

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Posted 31 December 2017 - 09:25 AM

I might even throw in a new set of mounts in just to be sure.

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#20 _Housecat1977_

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Posted 01 January 2018 - 11:04 AM

So I replaced the engine bracket with the correct one and put in two new engine mounts as well.
Was hoping I didn't have to release the extracts but I wasn't that lucky. Will see how it sounds when I start it up later on but am thinking I'll need a new gasket just cos that what happens with exhaust gaskets.

And because pics make for a better story,

Here is the offending part and a comparison with the correct one.

20171231_211844.jpg 237.07K 11 downloads

And here is the engine in the proper position

20180101_003750.jpg 232.68K 8 downloads

I couldn't believe how far over the engine moved.
Thanks again for all you help and suggestions guys.

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#21 _Arron_

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Posted 01 January 2018 - 04:26 PM

After reading this thread i had a look at mine as the engine i was running was from a HG/HK , looks like i had been using the wrong brackets as well as the wrong spacer for the transmission (had the one for the opel box installed that was from my previous LC)

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#22 RallyRed

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Posted 01 January 2018 - 04:38 PM

So I replaced the engine bracket with the correct one and put in two new engine mounts as well.
Was hoping I didn't have to release the extracts but I wasn't that lucky. Will see how it sounds when I start it up later on but am thinking I'll need a new gasket just cos that what happens with exhaust gaskets.

love your work...well sorted.

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#23 _Housecat1977_

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Posted 01 January 2018 - 04:46 PM

Glad you got some assistance from the thread Arron.

I’m pretty happy too, thanks Col, started it up earlier and there seems to be no exhaust leaks but it doesn’t want to idle, I think I have to adjust the float in the carb to account for it nolonger being on a crazy lean!